BCCI Faces Its Toughest Challenge

[Bracken]

Australia had to do much the same in the mid-80s by sticking kids like Steve Waugh, Dean Jones, and Boony in - picked as much for their perceived character/mental toughness as their cricketing talent. They got hammered for a couple of years, but grew into the nucleus of the team that won a world cup, regained the Ashes, and went a long way down the road of becoming the best team in the world. India has the talent there - the problem seems to me to be getting them the window of opportunity to make it happen.

I think the overwhelming majority of historical cases would show that short-term fixes (ie same team with new coach) or the revivals of the recent past (ie recalling older players who's best days are behind them) doesn't produce sustained success.

Yep- I was thinking about the comparison with the Australian team when I was talking about the Indian situation yesterday. The other thing the ACB did was empower Border as captain and (especially) Simpson as coach to form the team standards, and backed them when they sought to enforce them. As you said, after short term pain it paid off handsomely.

There's a lesson in that for the BCCI...

 

[Matt79]

The Dravid/Border comparison is also apt in several ways...

 

[Sanz]

Sanz you act so friggin' immature sometimes its unbelievable.

Did you mean Sachin Tendulkar can be so immature sometimes ?

 

[Sudeep]

It's not possible to clap with one hand. There's no way all this mess is any one particular side's fault.

 

[Sudeep]

Did you mean Sachin Tendulkar can be so immature sometimes ?

Maybe he can be. But that still doesn't change Jono's statement.

 

[Sanz]

Maybe he can be. But that still doesn't change Jono's statement.

You showed immense maturity with the above post and so did Jono with his.

 

[Sanz]

Tendulkar fans? SS and I are two of his "worshippers", right? Now go back and read the posts that have been made in this thread before getting too excited about nothing.

EDIT: By the way, there is no way you can conclude that either the seniors, the coach or the captain are primarily to blame at this point. (despite all of them certainly being at least partially to blame). Everyone seems to be open to the possibility of either Tendulkar, Ganguly, Chappell or Dravid turning out to be the disgraceful member except you - Tendulkar by default, isn't it? Oh wait, you hate Chappell too ... tough one. Seriously ...

I dont hate Chappell, I dislike his approach. And Yes Tendulkar is disgraceful because he conspired against his captain and coach and then came out in public against his coach.

It also makes him a hypocrite because this is the same Tendulkar that had said a year ago 'whatever happens in the dressing room should stay there', I wonder what happened to that moral stand.

 

[Sudeep]

You showed immense maturity with the above post and so did Jono with his.

 

[honestbharani]

How do you figure that?

I suppose my words weren't exactly apt.


What I meant to say was that Dravid has compromised a lot more for the needs of the team than SAchin and Sourav have. Dravid has batted in so many different positions and in so many different situations that it is not even funny. But Sourav and Sachin have always had their fixed slots and only batted there.


And Dravid didn't mutter a single word when Ganguly declared on him when he was on 94. But look what happened when Dravid did that with Sachin.


I just think Dravid is a lot more flexible and therefore more of a team man than those two. Definitely more than Sourav, at least.

 

[honestbharani]

Wanting to bat at a certain position isn't having bad attitude (IMO); its having an opinion.
I am not anointing Sachin God. I am sure he has had his issues. That doesn't mean he didn't put 100% into the team cause.
The point I am making is, you guys seem to be equating poor performance with a bad attitude. I don't think that isn't necessarily so.
I personally am majorly pissed at all these leaks. That is the only reason why I think Chappell should go. Also, it stands to reason that if Chappell had been doing this, in spite of repeated warnings/requests, shouldn't he be to blame for a bad attitude. The players can only be accused of not being professional enough not to be affected by this.
edit: deleted a line clarifying my lack of bias

Look, I am not for one moment saying Chappell isn't the root cause of all this. He is and that is why he is the first one to be gotten rid of. But having said that, the other guys shouldn't be allowed to get away with it. If anything, it will only serve as an example that a group of senior players can do whatever they want even if it goes against the captain and coach's wishes.

 

[adharcric]

I dont hate Chappell, I dislike his approach. And Yes Tendulkar is disgraceful because he conspired against his captain and coach and then came out in public against his coach.

It also makes him a hypocrite because this is the same Tendulkar that had said a year ago 'whatever happens in the dressing room should stay there', I wonder what happened to that moral stand.

Tendulkar is certainly at fault but the degree to which he is still up in the air. How do you know he conspired against his captain and his coach? Have you been hiding in the dressing room for the past year? Didn't think so. Until someone beyond the media confirms any of this, it doesn't carry too much weight. You will definitely accuse me of "defending my idol" here, but Tendulkar may have come out in the open only after he knew that Chappell was finished as the coach. Anyways, that's not the point.

 

[Jono]

And Dravid didn't mutter a single word when Ganguly declared on him when he was on 94. But look what happened when Dravid did that with Sachin.

That's because Dravid got hit in the head to be fair, otherwise I reckon they would have batted on.

 

[Ash_A55]

I wouldnt just kick the best players out (Tendulkar & Dravid) however I havent seen Tendulkar reproduce his early form. Perhaps the change of coach will appease the dressing room karma?

 

[Matt79]

Re-reading this thread, I'm staggered that their mothers don't send them all to their rooms until they can play nicely with the other children. For crying out loud, you have to wonder where the self-respect and professionalism of any of those involved has gone. If the players and officials want to run their national team like a class of year 8 girls then good luck to them, but it seems unfair to the supporters who, you know, actually want them to act like grown ups and do their job.

 

[viktor]

Look, I am not for one moment saying Chappell isn't the root cause of all this. He is and that is why he is the first one to be gotten rid of. But having said that, the other guys shouldn't be allowed to get away with it. If anything, it will only serve as an example that a group of senior players can do whatever they want even if it goes against the captain and coach's wishes.

I agree with both the points. However, so far, there are only rumors about the attitude problems about these players.
I don't think it is wrong for a group of players to have a certain opinion. eg the decision to bat first. The decision might have been wrong, but just because a group of seniors pushed that through doesn't automatically call their attitude into question.
So my point is, yes, if there is evidence of a coterie, working against the captain and coach, boot some of them out, even Sachin but if the evidence is just in the form of differences of opinion, that shouldn't be held against them.

 

[honestbharani]

That's because Dravid got hit in the head to be fair, otherwise I reckon they would have batted on.

nah, both Sourav and Dravid said he could have batted if they had decided to carry on. They just decided that it was the best time to declare.

 

[honestbharani]

I agree with both the points. However, so far, there are only rumors about the attitude problems about these players.
I don't think it is wrong for a group of players to have a certain opinion. eg the decision to bat first. The decision might have been wrong, but just because a group of seniors pushed that through doesn't automatically call their attitude into question.
So my point is, yes, if there is evidence of a coterie, working against the captain and coach, boot some of them out, even Sachin but if the evidence is just in the form of differences of opinion, that shouldn't be held against them.

It doesn't have to be blatant, right? I mean, if SAchin and Sourav etc. were just cocooned away from the management and weren't even trying to contribute as senior pros to the side, that needs to be dealt with as well. We are not asking them to be captains but just be around to advise the captain or at least throw in their two cents. That is what is expected from seniors.


Obviously, if all of these are just rumours (and personally, I dont think they are just rumours), but if they are, then fine, nothing needs to be done. But what if it isn't?

 

[Dasa]

nah, both Sourav and Dravid said he could have batted if they had decided to carry on. They just decided that it was the best time to declare.

Nah, the point is he could've batted but the treatment (just because of blood etc) would've eaten into the time left, leaving no time to get a few overs at the Aussies before stumps.

 

[viktor]

It doesn't have to be blatant, right? I mean, if SAchin and Sourav etc. were just cocooned away from the management and weren't even trying to contribute as senior pros to the side, that needs to be dealt with as well. We are not asking them to be captains but just be around to advise the captain or at least throw in their two cents. That is what is expected from seniors.


Obviously, if all of these are just rumours (and personally, I dont think they are just rumours), but if they are, then fine, nothing needs to be done. But what if it isn't?

Yes, if the seniors aren't providing leadership in any way, this needs to be addressed. If they were creating an alternate power center, this also needs to be addressed.

EDIT: At this point, I can't remember what my original point was...one of problems with arguing from work, but I believe my issue was with people saying we lost because of the "bad attitude". We lost because we played badly which may have had the attitude as a contributing factor.

 

[Pratters]

I think the biggest problem in the whole thing is the "media leaks" from both sides, and you'd have to ask yourself about the media's role in the whole thing. I know in Australia, that there's "on the record" and "off the record" conversations that you have with journalists, but the impression that you get from some of the stuff reported in the Indian press that there's no such differential, and that they report everything they hear, whether second hand or not. I wouldn't be surprised if leaks from both sides were far from intentional.

EDIT: I mean, looking at those two articles quoted earlier on this page, there are such in depth quotes from this "senior player" and that "senior player", but they're not attributed to anyone. Usually you'd find such sentiments being paraphrased without being directly quoted. It all just seems a little weird.

Yeah, I agree. We aren't inside the dressing room and do not know what goes on exactly. There were also reports of Chappell leaking sms' to the media regarding players on regular basis and stuff. That the reports are so speculative at times does not help matters.