Super Eight

[Richard]

C'mon bud, I'd expect better from you than that. The award judge was one man - Chickie, one of the most legendary DJs of them all.

It was always a toss-up between Bopara and Fernando, but I do find it a bit refreshing when the common theme of giving it to the man from the winning side is defied.

 

[GIMH]

I'm sure if SS visited this thread (or even this board, haven't seen him here tbh) he'd disagree with you Richard. I personally think the MoTM should be the player who has performed best out of the 22, result aside, but as you say, it is not the norm.

 

[JASON]

SL has already beaten WI. A win against Ireland might be enough to see them through though they would obviously prefer to seal the deal by winning another game.

A win against Ireland may be enough if they don't lose the other 2 by big margins (ie Australia and NZ) , because their NRR being quite good might see them through... But to be certain , they have to beat Australia or NZ plus Ireland.

Which makes next Friday's match against Black caps quite crucial..

It will also determine the semifinal line up, IMO .

The winner, I suspect will play SA and the loser will play Australia in the Semifinal... But this could all change as other results could change the last 4 .

 

[JASON]

C'mon bud, I'd expect better from you than that. The award judge was one man - Chickie, one of the most legendary DJs of them all.

It was always a toss-up between Bopara and Fernando, but I do find it a bit refreshing when the common theme of giving it to the man from the winning side is defied.

Apologies , Richard, but I am sure Sri Lankans and Fernando must have been pretty disappointed and Sanjay Manjrekar was quite blatant when he said (at the post Match discussion with Beefy)the awarding of MOM to the losing team was perplexing .

 

[_Ed_]

But you said England can't afford to have 2 non-performing openers - how will bringing in Strauss help?

Beat me to it.

 

[JASON]

This match again highlights SL over reliance on Jayasuriya and how rattled they get when Jayasuriya goes early . Against 2 quality Teams SA and England , SL top order have struggled to use the Power plays adequately in accelerating the run rate. Marvan Atapattu , IMO is needed badly to bolster the top of the order, coming in at 3 . So that after an early wicket they will have Atapattu staying put and playing a long innings .This will also mean Dilshan and Chamara Silva will be coming in during the slog overs (40-50) and be able to beef up the score from an average or below par score (as it has been in these 2 crucial games into Match winning scores ).

Arnold would unfortunately have to be the guy who gives way to Atapattu.

Australia and NZ , will win with ease against SL if they continue posting low 200 scores as they have against SA and England.

The other sad point worth noting (and something that has been a trend as was the case v West Indies as well) is the failure of Muralitharan's ability to restrict runs when it matters . Against West Indies Chanderpaul smashed 4 sixers and Murali got carted for 60 plus in his 10 overs. Today Nixon took him to the cleaners when it mattered and the reverse sweep six must have been an absolutely humiliating experience for any spinner... An ominous sign for Sri Lanka is the ease with which several teams are playing Murali and , IMO Murali is due for more when the free scoring Australians and the in-form New Zealanders face SL.

 

[GIMH]

How many points do SL have now? 4 isn't it?

So if we were to win all 4 of our remaining games, then SL would need to win 2 more to be abssolutely sure wouldn't they?

Now I'm not saying we will win all 4, but SL getting complacent could be the best thing to happen to us tbh


(my calculations could be incorrect, my brain isn't working today)

 

[Prince EWS]

TSL top order have struggled to use the Power plays adequately in accelerating the run rate. Marvan Atapattu , IMO is needed badly

Is it just me, or do those two sentences contradict each other completely?

I could see the logic for Atapattu to be introduced, but the fact that SL are struggling to take advantage of the PP overs is not a positive endorsement for Atapattu's inclusion.

The only change I would make to the Sri Lankan batting lineup would be swapping Arnold and Silva over. Arnold is unsuited to batting #7 IMO while Silva is quite obviously the best suited to it in the entire squad.

 

[JASON]

How many points do SL have now? 4 isn't it?

So if we were to win all 4 of our remaining games, then SL would need to win 2 more to be abssolutely sure wouldn't they?

Now I'm not saying we will win all 4, but SL getting complacent could be the best thing to happen to us tbh


(my calculations could be incorrect, my brain isn't working today)

SL has 6 , and I suspect if they beat Ireland by a wopping big margin while losing to Australia and NZ by narrow margins , they would be thru to Semis.... But that would be risky ...the safe route would be to beat Ireland and one of Australia or NZ ....Obviously a daunting prospect.. The best option if they cannot win is to try and lose only by a small NRR loss.

 

[_Ed_]

the safe route would be to beat Ireland and one of Australia or NZ ....Obviously a daunting prospect..

I feel exactly the same way about NZ having to beat SL if that makes you feel any more confident.

 

[GIMH]

SL has 6 , and I suspect if they beat Ireland by a wopping big margin while losing to Australia and NZ by narrow margins , they would be thru to Semis.... But that would be risky ...the safe route would be to beat Ireland and one of Australia or NZ ....Obviously a daunting prospect.. The best option if they cannot win is to try and lose only by a small NRR loss.

Right, Sl have 6, my bad, sorry

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

IMO, a man of the match award should go to the player who had the biggest influence on the outcome of the game. That doesn't necessarily mean the best irrespective of the result, but it doesn't necessarily mean a player only from the winning team either. If you had an ODI where a batsman from one team scored a century in posting 220 and the other team chased it down in a reasonably close game and didn't have a single standout player, you'd normally give the award to the guy who made the century. If there were big scorers on both sides you'd always go with the winning player, though.

Similarly you wouldn't give the award to the top scorer in the chase if one guy made 50 off 60 batting with the tail in a one wicket win or something, even if the top scorer made a larger score earlier in the innings, because it was the guy batting with the tail who ensured the win. It's always going to be totally subjective though.

 

[JBH001]

This match again highlights SL over reliance on Jayasuriya and how rattled they get when Jayasuriya goes early . Against 2 quality Teams SA and England , SL top order have struggled to use the Power plays adequately in accelerating the run rate. Marvan Atapattu , IMO is needed badly to bolster the top of the order, coming in at 3 . So that after an early wicket they will have Atapattu staying put and playing a long innings .This will also mean Dilshan and Chamara Silva will be coming in during the slog overs (40-50) and be able to beef up the score from an average or below par score (as it has been in these 2 crucial games into Match winning scores ).

Arnold would unfortunately have to be the guy who gives way to Atapattu.

Australia and NZ , will win with ease against SL if they continue posting low 200 scores as they have against SA and England.

The other sad point worth noting (and something that has been a trend as was the case v West Indies as well) is the failure of Muralitharan's ability to restrict runs when it matters . Against West Indies Chanderpaul smashed 4 sixers and Murali got carted for 60 plus in his 10 overs. Today Nixon took him to the cleaners when it mattered and the reverse sweep six must have been an absolutely humiliating experience for any spinner... An ominous sign for Sri Lanka is the ease with which several teams are playing Murali and , IMO Murali is due for more when the free scoring Australians and the in-form New Zealanders face SL.

Jason mate, I really do not see how you can talk about PP and Marvan in the same sentence. In any case Marvan is not a cert to restore top order stability to a batting side as he is one of the most nervous starters to ever pad up, and is especially vulnerable early on to good swing/seam bowling. I can see where you are coming from, but I believe it to be more a case of the other batsmen stepping up than Marvan providing some magical panacea. Sanga, for example, getting some runs at 3 would go a long way towards solving SL's batting troubles. Also, lets not forget that Eng bowled and fielded very well, and really out the screws on.

As for Murali, I think you exaggerate a little. Against WI he only really had trouble against Shiv (he has always had trouble against lefties) though apart from that, it is true that his bowling was only competent at best. Against England he bowled very well right upto the slog overs (8 overs for 25 runs with the key wkt of KP) before going for a few - as most bowlers tend to do against well set batsmen (especially on small grounds with smaller boundaries). I do agree that he should not have been brought on at the end, as was my feeling when i was watching it (I remember saying "this is a mistake") because I thought he would go for a few. IMO Murali needs to be bowled in 2 - 3 spells (none of this one over rubbish) and should usually be done by the early stages of the death overs.

But his contest against Aus and NZ will be worth watching. I think he will go for a few versus Australia, but as long he takes a couple of wkts I wont be complaining.

 

[JASON]

I can't see how you can say Atapattu has trouble with the moving ball, when the guy opened batting for SL for most of his career .

Here are his stats summary -

268 ODIs - 8,529 runs - Average 37.57 - Strike rate 67.72 - 11 hundreds and 59 fifties

Most of his innings (or at least 80%of these) as opener .
http://content-nz.cricinfo.com/srilanka/content/player/48124.html

Compare with

Arnold Stats - Most at Number 5, 6, 7 - This low strike rate and par average is certainly not good enough for some one who is coming so low down and expected to accelerate the scoring rate and beef up the score during the slog overs , IMO.

175 ODIs - 3932 runs - Average 35.74 - Strike rate 72.58 - 1 hundred and 28 fifties

http://content-nz.cricinfo.com/srilanka/content/player/48122.html

 

[JASON]

And as those Fifties and hundreds show, Atapattu can be a match winner by making those big scores. Arnold's contribution of big scores or even the number of fifties is low .

I hope someone can break down the stats and may be able to show Atapattu's contribution in winning matches for SL (ie number of big scores that have come in winning efforts) and similar analysis for Arnold.

 

[Prince EWS]

Arnold's contribution of big scores or even the number of fifties is low.

That's because he always bats at #7.

There isn't a spot for Atapattu in the top 5 and he'd be less useful than Arnold is a closing role, so that's why Arnold is playing.

 

[JASON]

And what I meant by Marvan's role in Power plays was that , when an early wicket falls , this guy could be sent at 3 and hold one end and play the long innings he has been known to do while it gives the other person (Sanath J or Tharanga or even Sanga) to go after the bowling and capitalise on the Powerplays to get to a run rate of 6 or 7 early on.

So that it doesn't become the hard work in the middle overs as it has been in the crucial games v SA and England.

 

[JASON]

That's because he always bats at #7.

There isn't a spot for Atapattu in the top 5 and he'd be less useful than Arnold is a closing role, so that's why Arnold is playing.

I am hoping someone could analyse Arnold's stats and contributions in winning games for SL. I have seen stats presented elsewhere which have shown clearly the contribution by Arnold in games SL win have been poor . While he has scored 40s and fifties, when SL were already out of the game by a country mile as was the case in some games in India recently and against SA last week. Where he has been relied upon to go on to the end, he has always failed to deliver - against SA when he holed out , when he would have expected to add another 20 or 30 over the last few overs, against England Yesterday, again same .

 

[Lostman]

I am hoping someone could analyse Arnold's stats and contributions in winning games for SL. I have seen stats presented elsewhere which have shown clearly the contribution by Arnold in games SL win have been poor . While he has scored 40s and fifties, when SL were already out of the game by a country mile as was the case in some games in India recently and against SA last week. Where he has been relied upon to go on to the end, he has always failed to deliver - against SA when he holed out , when he would have expected to add another 20 or 30 over the last few overs, against England Yesterday, again same .

i thought this too, and i had a look at the stats. When SL win he averages 41, and in matches lost he averages 29. Really misleading though, Iam sure most of these #'s were compiled during the late 90's. His last 8 scores when SL have lost is 56,15,64,76,16,66,22 & 50. The fact is if SL have to rely on Arnold to make a score of 25 or more, they have already lost the game. Maharoof would be a much better option at number seven i think, he is the probably the only SL batsmen other than SJ that can hit 6's.

 

[JBH001]

Ah, correct me if I am wrong, but not SL batted first in every game so far in the WC?
(or at least against meaningful opponents)

I fail to see then how Arnold can be held responsible for SL losing. In the case of the game against India it was the partnership between himself and Dilshan that gave SL a decent total, it was the same against SA, and against Eng he scored 20 odd at almost a run a ball. I fail to see what more he can do. Your arguments may have cogence if SL had been chasing, but not in the case of SL batting first - if SL has had a low total clearly the blame lies elsewhere, not solely (if at all) with Arnold.

Again, in regard to Marvan. Marvan has a decent avg. but it is true that he is a nervous starter, often takes a while to get set, and is particularly vulnerable to the new ball early on. I know that he has been SL's test opener, but a look at his figures during his career will bring up a large percentage of scores between 0 - 9 along with some massive knocks once he is set. Furthermore, as EWS has said in the other thread bringing in Marvan so that other batsmen can make runs during the PP makes no sense at all. If anything it would make it harder for the team as only one batsman would be scoring substantial runs - and for a batsman who supposedly bats through the innings a SR of 67 is very poor indeed. Very, very poor. The last thing the SL team needs is Marvan thuttufying at one end, while a succession of wickets fall at the other in an attempt to keep up a good RR.

The problem is with the existing batsmen, and the weaknesses of the batsmen and the overall batting line-up. Marvan is not a panacea for this, and in fact, he would likely make things worse. The batting order is fine as it is, all that remains is for Sanga and Chamara to start scoring some runs again, and for Vaas to come to the party.