Cricket going the hockey way??????

[Anil]

The problem with Pakistani hockey administration (basically the olympians of the bygone days who played on grass) is that they cling on and refuse to let go of the glories and techniques of the past - the game today is widely different from the way it was played back then and unless you evolve your style accordingly you are naturally going to fall behind.

that is pretty much what i said, so how is my premise erroneous? i said pakistan competed better than india in the astroturf era for a much longer period which is true, over the past few years i agree that they are also fading away(still better than india though)....

 

[Anil]

Pakistan and India can be the best again....even on astroturf ( i honetsly believe that), but first they need to drop the attitude and look to
addrss their shortcomings.

definitely not at the dominant level that we saw pre-80, even to rise to a level where they can compete with the other elite teams would be a very difficult task and i am not sure it can be done given the diminishing talent pool and fan following for the game in both countries, i hope i am wrong...

 

[Richard]

So this is officially a hockey thread in CC?

 

[Beleg]

Anil,

I was responding to HB's initial post. (I didn't read the posts after that before replying)

 

[Salamuddin]

definitely not at the dominant level that we saw pre-80, even to rise to a level where they can compete with the other elite teams would be a very difficult task and i am not sure it can be done given the diminishing talent pool and fan following for the game in both countries, i hope i am wrong...

I don't think the talent pool is diminishing and nor is the fan interest.....look at the Indian Premier Hockey League (where lots of Pakistani players play as well).....there are huge crowds....THe Lahore Champions Tropy of 2004 and the Chennai Champions trophy in 2005 also witnessed big crowds.

A record number of players turned up for trials in Pakistan's u-21 championships this year and India have finished 2nd, 1st and 4th in the last 3 u-21 World Cups.

Coaches such as Charlesworth and Hendriks themselves have admitted in terms of talent pool, India and Pakistan still have a lot to offer.

As I said before, Indian and Pakistani players still have better technical ability than their German and Dutch counterparts --- I have seen this myself. But the those teams are much fitter, tougher mentally and tactically, they are streets ahead.

If India and Pakistan can learn from them (or better stuill from the Aussies and the Koreans), they can win medals in hockey again.

 

[honestbharani]

If people are to be believed, every single sport isn't as good as it used to be. Cricket, AFL, tennis, soccer, boxing... hear it all the time.

I didn't say it was necessarily better or worse in terms of quality. But sports are definitely worse now compared to a couple of decades ago in terms of variety. And for a casual fan (and I guess we aren't that w.r.t cricket), variety in players' techniques and stuff is what draws him in. I am a casual football (soccer) fan and I just get extremely bored watching some teams of the EPL. They all seem to have the same style of players and they all seem to play rather conservatively at most times. Now, I am sure, a REAL football fan would be able to see a thousand differences between each players' technique and style and will also find little things in each game to keep him interested, but a REAL fan is a real fan anyway.... It is only by gaining more "casual" fans that a game/sport can grow...

 

[honestbharani]

Whilst I can be as romantic and nostalgic when it comes to appreciating the sublteties of sport, what it comes down to is that the best tactics to win (so long as they are within the rules and 'spirit' of the game) should be employed. If a cricketer who is more athletic yet less 'skilled' in terms of batting (for the eg. of cricket), breeds better results than the skilled batsman, that is the way the game will go whether people like it or not.

The only way to prevent this from happening is to change/modify the rules to accomodate for the changing nature of the sport (whichever it may be) to ensure the game stays the same. Now if stronger and fitter cricketers are proving to be superior to those with less stamina yet more skill, then maybe a change in boundary ropes, or bat size, or pitch conditions (these aren't solutions, just examples of possible changes) will be made if it is deemed necessary. The public will demand it however.

Fact is, if the sport gets 'less attractive and entertaining' due to a changing nature of the game, it will show in audience and viewing numbers. Honest's example of tennis I disagree with. The whole complaint about power overriding finesse is incredibly exaggerated in my view. As much as I love the serve-and-volley game of Rafter or Henman, I will still take a Safin vs. Roddick match over them. Why? I just find those two slugging it out more entertaining, and if power tennis breeds better results than a serve-and-volley (for example), then the game will naturally adapt that way. If the fans as a whole don't like it, it will eventually change, either through limiting raquet technology, or slowing court surfaces etc.

I just get tired of hearing every time I tune in to a sport, whichever it may be, that the game is not as good as the old days. FFS, I get extremely nostalgic about the cricket and worry about the way the game is heading towards batsman, but even I find these calls that the game is heading to hell a bunch of hyperbole.

I agree that it all boils down to an individual's opinion, Jono and I am sure there are a number of people who prefer a Roddick/Safin power match to a classic Rafter/Agassi duel, but I think it has been shown through the studies of ATP and stuff that variety in terms of style and technique of the players is still what draws in more casual fans to the sport/game.

 

[honestbharani]

Anil,

I was responding to HB's initial post. (I didn't read the posts after that before replying)

Actually, I am not THAT interested in hockey either. It was just an article I read in Times of India. But the point was that with all the innovations in technology, it just "seems" that a guy with lesser skill but better fitness would actually succeed against a more skilled but less fit player. I don't have a problem with that situation, at all, tbh, but it shouldn't come to a stage when most players use similar techniques and just start to look a lot like each other. We are seeing sixes fly off the leading edges now (Hayden against the Windies in this WC, and that was a HUGE ground). So seriously, it could just come to a level when a supremely fit player can do pretty much whatever he wants with the bat if he just a BIT of talent.


But I agree with some sentiments expressed in this thread. If it at all reaches that kind of stage in cricket, then I am sure the lessened interest from the fans will make the ICC and other boards do something about it. And I don't think that situation is gonna happen any time soon, but I just wanted to see some good discussion on the issue, since I thought it was an interesting topic.

 

[Anil]

Anil,

I was responding to HB's initial post. (I didn't read the posts after that before replying)

got it...

 

[Anil]

I don't think the talent pool is diminishing and nor is the fan interest.....look at the Indian Premier Hockey League (where lots of Pakistani players play as well).....there are huge crowds....THe Lahore Champions Tropy of 2004 and the Chennai Champions trophy in 2005 also witnessed big crowds.

A record number of players turned up for trials in Pakistan's u-21 championships this year and India have finished 2nd, 1st and 4th in the last 3 u-21 World Cups.

Coaches such as Charlesworth and Hendriks themselves have admitted in terms of talent pool, India and Pakistan still have a lot to offer.

As I said before, Indian and Pakistani players still have better technical ability than their German and Dutch counterparts --- I have seen this myself. But the those teams are much fitter, tougher mentally and tactically, they are streets ahead.

If India and Pakistan can learn from them (or better stuill from the Aussies and the Koreans), they can win medals in hockey again.

well all i can say is i hope you turn out to be right...