Is Flintoff Overrated?

[adharcric]

Is that C_C whipping you or vice versa?

 

[Burgey]

Is that C_C whipping you or vice versa?

That's C_C and I whipping an argument to death

 

[Richard]

Flintoff's drinking got him into trouble when he was younger. He was supposed to have put that behind him, but now this "little matter" of Flintoff liking a drink has affected his professional career. None of us really know how much of a problem Flintoff's drinking is (including you), but I swear if he were an Australian or New Zealander he would've been made to give one of those "I have a drinking problem" press conferences. What the hell was he doing going out drinking with Plunkett who has a drink-driving charge? A small mistake, I know, drinking and driving.

How exactly does drink-driving (once - that's all we know) mean you're suddenly a completely irresponsible drinker? That's a ridiculous notion. Drink-driving and "having a drink problem" are completely and totally unrelated things.

Aussies and Kiwis are no more into drink than Brits. None at all. In all three countries there are many - quite justifiably - who like the odd bender now and then and also enjoy the perennial "few beers" with mates from time to time. I include myself firmly amongst both categories.

To suggest that liking a drink has affected Flintoff's career is so stupid it beggars belief that anyone would suggest it. He's not had to undergo alcoholism treatment, he's not been sneaking vodka miniatures into the dressing-room and downing them when the coach isn't looking, or anything like that. He just happens to have recently gone a bit OTT at completely the wrong time on an occasional bender. And he's received his punishment for it, and expressed his regret.

Having a drink and playing cricket are two completely separate matters that don't interefere with each other - at all.

 

[Richard]

(With tongue firmly planted in cheek) To C_C:
He's no where near as good as any cricketer from anywhere in the world who played any time before the year 2000 because all the good bowlers and all the good batsman all simultaneously retired on 31.12.99....

TBF no-one's ever said that. But there's no denying that the calibre of bowling declined dramatically around about the middle of 2001.

 

[Fiery]

To suggest that liking a drink has affected Flintoff's career is so stupid it beggars belief that anyone would suggest it. He's not had to undergo alcoholism treatment, he's not been sneaking vodka miniatures into the dressing-room and downing them when the coach isn't looking, or anything like that. He just happens to have recently gone a bit OTT at completely the wrong time on an occasional bender. And he's received his punishment for it, and expressed his regret.

Having a drink and playing cricket are two completely separate matters that don't interefere with each other - at all.

Surprising naive attitude Richard. Of course the more alcohol you drink the worse you'll be at anything. I know from personal experience. I was DIC'd when at uni and drinking like a fish. I decided to not drink at all for a month. At the end of the month I scored a 140 in about 30 overs then bowled 8 overs and got 2/13. It was by far the best I've ever played and put it down solely to that fact I hadn't drunk for a month. My reflexes were sharper, I was fitter and felt confident in my ability.

 

[Richard]

That's an extreme example and you know it. No successful pro sportsman drinks anywhere near that much.

 

[PY]

he's not been sneaking vodka miniatures into the dressing-room and downing them when the coach isn't looking, or anything like that.

Can I ask how you know this hasn't been happening? I'm not saying it has but you say it with such certainty.

It's open knowledge that there was some drinking troubles during the recent Ashes series and they were kept quiet. Who knows what that involved!

 

[Richard]

Really?

Do tell.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

...

The whole point of PY's post was that nobody knows what went on, and you ask him for specific details?

 

[Richard]

"Open knowledge" and "they were kept quiet".

Sounds like Pete knows something - and I don't know even that much.

 

[ohtani's jacket]

How exactly does drink-driving (once - that's all we know) mean you're suddenly a completely irresponsible drinker? That's a ridiculous notion. Drink-driving and "having a drink problem" are completely and totally unrelated things.

So getting behind the wheel when you're two times over the limit is a minor indiscretion? Plunkett going on a bender after being arrested for drink-driving shows he is an irresponsible drinker. Obviously this guy learnt nothing from his rehabilitation course, if he even attended it. I doubt the courts would be as forgiving as you.

To suggest that liking a drink has affected Flintoff's career is so stupid it beggars belief that anyone would suggest it.

It has affected his career. He was stripped of the vice-captaincy.

He's not had to undergo alcoholism treatment, he's not been sneaking vodka miniatures into the dressing-room and downing them when the coach isn't looking, or anything like that..

Stop equating a drinking problem with alcoholism.

 

[maheshprasad]

To everybody who says he is not the greatest of batsmen or bowlers

Let me tell you first that Flintoff is not an exceptional batsman or an exceptional bowler.He is a good batsman and very good bowler.That makes him a fantastic allrounder which are very rare in cricket.That is why he is highly rated.To me and every man who understands cricket,he is the best allrounder in the world along with Kallis.

 

[maheshprasad]

Overrated as compared to what ?

Are you putting Flintoff in the top echelon with Imran, Miller, Sobers ? If so, i'd say yes, he's definitely overrated.

Are you putting Flintoff in the bracket just below with Kapil, Mankad, Botham, Kallis, Procter, etc ? Then yes, i'd say he is probably overrated.

But if you are putting him in the next tier with Cairns, Pollock, Hadlee, Benaud, etc, you are probably doing justice to Flintoff.

(The abovementioned is for Tests)

In ODIs, i'd say Flintoff is in the third tier again, with Cairns, Pollock, etc. in the same boat.

Actually we say one player is the best by comparing him.You tell me who in the world can equally deliver with bat and ball than flintoff.Kallis is one of the best batsmen in the world but not so good with the ball.Pollock is one of the best with the ball but what abt his batting?

 

[andmark]

^^^Hayden.

 

[LA ICE-E]

flintoff is no way overrated...the english team depend a lot on him...he backs it up too most times...

 

[SJS]

Talent and skillwise Flintoff is definitely not over rated. But the really great cricketers have invariably been individuals with very sound cricketing brains. One has always had dobts in this regard about Freddie.

 

[Swervy]

Talent and skillwise Flintoff is definitely not over rated. But the really great cricketers have invariably been individuals with very sound cricketing brains. One has always had dobts in this regard about Freddie.

a tad unfair I think...Flintoff has matured a hell of a lot 'brains'-wise in the last 5 years

 

[PY]

"Open knowledge" and "they were kept quiet".

Sounds like Pete knows something - and I don't know even that much.

It's 'open knowledge' that there were drinking problems on the Ashes tour.

It's been 'kept quiet' as to the nature of the problems.

I can't find the exact quote about the Ashes, all I could find was this from Fletcher:

""Andrew Flintoff has been given warnings about his conduct and disciplined for previous incidents of this nature."

 

[pasag]

I'm with Richard here.

 

[superwills]

whens the last time he took 5 wickets then hit 50 ina test eh...
he thinks he too good to be dropped. he thinks hes invincible. his battings been awful last few years and he doesnt take many with the ball. WELL OVERRATED!!!