Group C - New Zealand, England, Kenya, Canada

[Fiery]

thierry, your criticism of Lou Vincent is totally unfair imo and you are concentrating on the past far too much. OK, so he didn't have the greatest start to his ODI career hence the low average and strike rate but he's done pretty damn well since he took over from Astle and actually added another string to the Black Caps bow. I think he was an extremely important part of this campaign, capable of quick-fire starts and will be a huge loss in the field. Also, his general enthusiasm and popularity within the team will be missed. Throw the guy a bone ffs

 

[Raghav]

thierry, your criticism of Lou Vincent is totally unfair imo and you are concentrating on the past far too much. OK, so he didn't have the greatest start to his ODI career hence the low average and strike rate but he's done pretty damn well since he took over from Astle and actually added another string to the Black Caps bow. I think he was an extremely important part of this campaign, capable of quick-fire starts and will be a huge loss in the field. Also, his general enthusiasm and popularity within the team will be missed. Throw the guy a bone ffs

Yep...Good response

 

[Macka]

....

Knock a guy when he's down, okay. But knock a guy when he's doing fantastic, not fair at all on the lad. And yes, I have watched all his CB & CH series innings. His batting was fine. The odd bad shot, sure, but Fulton was also guilty of that on occasion and Fleming more so than both of them.

EDIT: Note, I don't think Fleming is crap either.

Well said. Vincent looks ten times the player when he attacks the bowling. People don't seem to understand this, and a lot of people would rather him regress to poking outside off stump constantly.

Except for the Fleming part.. he's rubbish given his talent.

 

[corza_nz]

agree with all the responses. to knock vincent and call him crap is totally un called for and wrong tbh. hes been a great player in recent times. plus one of the reasons he had a poor start to his career was due to the fact he was comin in down the order to begin with. as an opener he averages just under 34 which is better then most kiwis and since the beginning of 2005 he has averaged just under 40 and then ontop of that over 50 this year. so if you call him crap then half of the worlds international players are crap.

 

[Blaze]

thierry, your criticism of Lou Vincent is totally unfair imo and you are concentrating on the past far too much. OK, so he didn't have the greatest start to his ODI career hence the low average and strike rate but he's done pretty damn well since he took over from Astle and actually added another string to the Black Caps bow. I think he was an extremely important part of this campaign, capable of quick-fire starts and will be a huge loss in the field. Also, his general enthusiasm and popularity within the team will be missed. Throw the guy a bone ffs

I don't get how so few people can see how bad Vincent is.

Do you guys just ignore how crap he looks in foreign conditions... (slow low pitches, or any hint of swing in the air or seam off the pitch)

 

[Blaze]

Except for the Fleming part.. he's rubbish given his talent.

Fleming bashers are pretty much the scum of the earth imo

 

[Fiery]

I don't get how so few people can see how bad Vincent is.

Do you guys just ignore how crap he looks in foreign conditions... (slow low pitches, or any hint of swing in the air or seam off the pitch)

You just like agreeing with thierry henry and vice versa

 

[Blaze]

You just like agreeing with thierry henry and vice versa

lol. I just have no confidence in the guy. He can't be trusted on anything but hard and fast tracks.

I have changed my opinion on him slightly. I wouldn't have recalled him for the CB series but he proved there that he is capable on good batting tracks. I can accept him being picked for any home series, but he just isn't up to it away from home...

btw his average over the last 18 months or so in hugely inflated by his 180 against Zimbabwe...

 

[Fiery]

lol. I just have no confidence in the guy. He can't be trusted on anything but hard and fast tracks.

I have changed my opinion on him slightly. I wouldn't have recalled him for the CB series but he proved there that he is capable on good batting tracks. I can accept him being picked for any home series, but he just isn't up to it away from home...

btw his average over the last 18 months or so in hugely inflated by his 180 against Zimbabwe...

I know not to get too disappointed when he fails as he plays a high-risk game

 

[Dick Rockett]

Do you guys just ignore how crap he looks in foreign conditions... (slow low pitches, or any hint of swing in the air or seam off the pitch)

What, like a lot of international batsmen? Even Ricky Ponting struggles with swing and seam - that's why bowlers strive to create it.

 

[Pup Clarke]

What, like a lot of international batsmen? Even Ricky Ponting struggles with swing and seam - that's why bowlers strive to create it.

But most international bowlers aren't good enough to exploit Ponting's weakness are they?

 

[Dick Rockett]

But most international bowlers aren't good enough to exploit Ponting's weakness are they?

No, but that's not got anything to do with Vincent. My point was that saying he struggles against seam and swing is a poor argument because basically every batsman does.

If I was pressed to identify a major fault with Vincent, it's probably that he's not that good at shot selection. He's shown in tests what he can do if he's patient and applies himself. In ODIs he's usually either out caught behind because he's prodding at a good length delivery, or he's being caught in the inner ring on the off side trying to force the pace and hit over the top.

 

[Raghav]

Vincent only suffers from poor shot selection...rest others.. I think ok.. Its treat to watch him in good nick, when he connects the ball well. Hope he recovers soon

 

[thierry henry]

Poor shot selection, horrible technique, the works. He's succeeded for 5 minutes after years of ineptitude and my basis for suggesting that he won't continue to succeed is that he still looks like a crap batsman.

 

[Prince EWS]

I remember a while ago there was a Styris v Vincent thread - I think it might have even been started by th. I can't be bothered to dig it up ITBT, but it'd be interesting to see if anyone's opinions had changed.

 

[thierry henry]

Don't see why, after a brief stumble the Pig (a true NZ cricketing hero) is in peak form again.

 

[Prince EWS]

Don't see why, after a brief stumble the Pig (a true NZ cricketing hero) is in peak form again.

Yeah, but IIRC, he wasn't in the best of form when that thread was doing the rounds.

 

[Loony BoB]

btw his average over the last 18 months or so in hugely inflated by his 180 against Zimbabwe...

When I was talking about his average being over 40 against Aussie (latest 10 games) I didn't include that, and when I was talking about his average being 39 since starting the ICC CT, I didn't include that either. Fact is he's doing well.

The only batsman I have anything against is Marshall right now, and I really hope he doesn't **** up. But, unlike some, if he proves himself then I'll be delighted rather than pessimistic and dismissive.

On a sidenote, if Vincent is a hard-fast-flat track bully, then why would you say he does well in NZ? Last time I checked, NZ hasn't - until very recently - provided many flat tracks over the years. I always thought our wickets favoured seam bowlers and not batsmen/spinners? Maybe things have changed a lot domestically since I was in NZ, but when I was there it was all seam, little else.

 

[Blaze]

well you are wrong BoB.

NZ tracks at ODI level have been hard and flat since India toured in 2002.

 

[Zinzan]

well you are wrong BoB.

NZ tracks at ODI level have been hard and flat since India toured in 2002.

Correct, In fact strips of concrete in the last 2 Chappell Hadlee games