Minnows - Do we need them, do they improve with us?

[Richard]

India could quite conceivably beat Sri Lanka (and both teams will fairly obviously beat Bermuda) and Bangladesh could still go though despite both teams winning 2 games.

Try laughing backwards.

 

[Langeveldt]

Haha, what good timing for a thread like this..

Wonderful to see Pakistan out of the world cup though, and with a bit of luck India to follow... Ireland must seriously be the best "Minnow".. I wish Woolmer would come home and coach here, or at least go to a country whose fans don't actually want him to die when they lose.. sickening tbh

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Dire stuff from Richard in this thread. What does the C&G team have to do with anything? Most of the best Irish players have contracts with other county teams, and don't represent "Ireland" in that tournament. You may as well say Australia aren't favourites for this WC because they didn't win the U-19 WC.

Ireland obviously aren't on the same level as Bangladesh or Kenya just yet, but look at the calibre of Irish-produced players they've picked up in recent years. Joyce has unfortunately gone English, but Morgan, Porterfield, O'Brien and Rankin are all Irish born, young and talented, and will play a big role in Ireland's progression in this WC, along with the ex-pats. If Ireland continue to produce players like that, they'll be a very competitive team in the near future.

As Ireland's international profile grows (and this advancement in the WC will help), players will be less likely to defect to other nations, and young players will have more interest in becoming professional cricketers. It's the same as any other minnow nation, really. Obviously the likes of Bermuda aren't likely to go far, but Bangladesh, Zimbabwe and Sri Lanka show the template for the growth of the sport in a country which was previously uncompetitive, and Ireland are one side that can definitely follow that path.

 

[slugger]

Seems you've given up raking water up a hill on the Ireland/Pak result because even you've realised a win and tie is alot better than what Pakinstan achieved, and you've only tried to prove the systems flawed with some poor number tinking with Bangladesh "one wins going to get them in the super 8." boo hooo wipe the tears from your eyes, all I explained is winning matches will get you to the super 8 and if run rate calculations have to be used to decide who advances, then so be it.

I remember Australia batting slow to win a match at the 1999 WC, to enable West Indies to advance with them to Super 6 stage so they take the win points:

we've put the CI resident calculator man to work and have come up a
few figures:
Australia needs to win within 47.2 overs to guarantee a super 6
position. Now, from Australia's point of view, they want WI rather
NZ to be in the super 6 so that they have 2 Super 6 points
if Australia win in 47.2 overs, that would leave NZ chasing (for
example) 181 off 19.4 overs to beat WI. if Aust win in 40 overs,
then NZ would chase something like 181 in 23.5 overs. Aus win in
25, NZ would be chasing 181 in 34.1 overs.
this is all assuming Scotland set a target of 180 in the 1st
innings tomorrow, which seems roughly a reasonable expectation.
covers are off. Match is underway.

And for the record:
17.4 Hamilton to Cairns, FOUR, guided down to the 3rd man, the fine leg
stops it, then overruns it, ball tricles over the rope in the
meantime
17.5 Hamilton to Cairns, SIX, and the Kiwis show that the latest form of
"underhand" tactics from Australia will not prevent their entry
into the super 6. Cairns lofting it out of the ground over the
forward square leg, a super 6 for the super 6
Pakistan finish 1st, Australia 2nd, New Zealand 3rd. The 1st Super
6 match on July 4th will be India v Australia. Australia have
announced that SRT doesn't have to bat, they will just give him
the 100 to save time.
Off to watch the "cricket match" between Pakistan and Bangladesh.
Good afternoon from CI.
Off to watch the "cricket match" between Pakistan and Bangladesh.
Good afternoon from CI.

 

[James90]

Haha, the quotations used in "cricket match" is worth a Greigy.

 

[Nemesis27]

Minnows need to play more cricket against established nations and should be trained to become a Major cricket nation, because I feel we need a few more nations in our great game.

 

[Dead Badger]

but it does annoy me when you get results like these - not because the teams haven't played well on that occasion, but because it skews the tournament off its axis.

This surely is a problem with creating an artificially segregated tournament, not with upsets in and of themselves. If the ICC have created a tournament in which one or two upsets completely break their carefully contrived scheme to have the 8 obvious teams go through, then that's their fault, no-one else's. And if they put all their eggs in one basket by having the Super 8 play each other a ridiculous number of times, that again is no-one's fault but their own. It's certainly not an argument against having teams like Ireland in the Cup, who, after all, have proven they can actually beat top teams on a good day. They've proved they deserve to be there, and they deserve a reward for two very good performances.

Your issue should not be with the "minnow" nations playing, but with the ridiculously contrived format the ICC have conceived. By setting the tournament up in this segregated way they've reduced the competitiveness of (and thus interest in) half the tournament, and in doing so actually increased the likelihood of upsets, due to the complacency it's bred in the two "big" teams in each group. Some of them, anyway.

 

[wpdavid]

I just don't think the minnow thing is working at all, please don't tell me any dutch cricketer actually improved after the pasting meted out by us yesterday..

Perhaps young Kervezee might have gained a bit of confidence, but if he ever makes anything of his cricket, It'll only be in England colours.. I fail to see how 200+ run pastings improve anyone as a cricketer.. Please come on and prove me very wrong

You're not, despite yesteday's events, and Bang are miles removed from most of the minnows anyway. At this stage, four of them would be ample, and it shouldn't be beyond anyone to come up with a sensible format to reflect that.

 

[Turbinator]

Haha, the quotations used in "cricket match" is worth a Greigy.

Wow, you actually put the thing in your sig .

I was hoping everyone would forget about it .

 

[Swervy]

its threads like this where I genuinely doubt Richards true understanding of the game

 

[Scaly piscine]

You're not, despite yesteday's events, and Bang are miles removed from most of the minnows anyway. At this stage, four of them would be ample, and it shouldn't be beyond anyone to come up with a sensible format to reflect that.

Four sides are ample? So from a recent competition involving the 'minnows'

            P   W   T   L  Pts    NRR
Kenya       5   4   0   1   8    1.36
Scotland    5   4   0   1   8    0.35
Netherlands 5   3   0   2   6    0.12
Canada      5   2   0   3   4   -0.85
Ireland     5   1   0   4   2   -0.06
Bermuda     5   1   0   4   2   -1.31

Ireland wouldn't have qualified then.

 

[Blaze]

This is my view - The minnows are fine. After all it is a WORLD CUP.

IMO a world cup is about bringing lots of cricketing countries together and seeing them face off against each other. Who cares how good or bad some of the minnows are. It is the WORLD CUP. They get 3 games to represent their country on the greatest stage there is.

If the minnows get left out then what is the difference between this and the champions trophey?

 

[LA ICE-E]

thats the same thing i've been trying to explain

 

[ohtani's jacket]

Yeah, this thread is crazy. Richard complains that the minnows lower the quality of the tournament, then when they win, he complains that it lowers the quality of the competition even further.

 

[Jono]

Haha, what good timing for a thread like this..

Wonderful to see Pakistan out of the world cup though, and with a bit of luck India to follow... Ireland must seriously be the best "Minnow".. I wish Woolmer would come home and coach here, or at least go to a country whose fans don't actually want him to die when they lose.. sickening tbh

Aren't you the one that bitched and moaned about Bangladesh being involved in cricket, and how it was a disgrace? (Being made to look like a fool when they beat Australia and now India twice) So Bangladesh making it through the Super 8s should disgust you I imagine.

But you also want India out right? And you're happy Pakistan are out too hey? Nice pattern happening there.

I see... Bermuda to go through then hey? Wait they're a minnow. Ah damn...

 

[wpdavid]

Four sides are ample? So from a recent competition involving the 'minnows'

            P   W   T   L  Pts    NRR
Kenya       5   4   0   1   8    1.36
Scotland    5   4   0   1   8    0.35
Netherlands 5   3   0   2   6    0.12
Canada      5   2   0   3   4   -0.85
Ireland     5   1   0   4   2   -0.06
Bermuda     5   1   0   4   2   -1.31

Ireland wouldn't have qualified then.

Such is life. Much as I enjoyed Saturday's result, the very occasional fluke doesn't make up for the pointless exercises we're regularly seeing elsewhere. In my opinion, anyway.

 

[Prince EWS]

Aren't you the one that bitched and moaned about Bangladesh being involved in cricket, and how it was a disgrace? (Being made to look like a fool when they beat Australia and now India twice) So Bangladesh making it through the Super 8s should disgust you I imagine.

But you also want India out right? And you're happy Pakistan are out too hey? Nice pattern happening there.

I see... Bermuda to go through then hey? Wait they're a minnow. Ah damn...

He did whinge about Zimbabwe too, so you can forget about your pattern. He may not be a fan of subcontinental teams, but I personally think that has absolutely squat to do with his comments about Bangladesh playing test cricket.

 

[Jono]

I realise that, I find it incredibly ironic however that he desires India to be eliminated, seeing as that will involve a team he has shown no respect to for years now getting through to the Super 8s of the biggest ODI tournament in cricket.

 

[silentstriker]

Believe it or not, I noticed that.

I'm telling you they could have - as so many others did.

You don't have to play the top nations to see whether you've improved, you can tell that by playing teams below that level.

Who improved without playing Tests? As far as I remember every new country after the initial ones, when they first received test status, got thrashed. I know India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, New Zealand and West Indies all got dominated, and for a lot longer than the five years that Bangladesh have.

 

[luckyeddie]

In all honesty, if I was Irish I'd be celebrating but not doing so by posting on CW.

I'm more Irish than most - and I've still not stopped celebrating yet.