*Official* Australia in decline thread

[BoyBrumby]

I have to say it does amuse me how quickly people line up to stick the boot into Oz when they have the slightest blip in form.

They've just beaten (arguably) the second-best test side 5-0 FFS, a feat not achieved for 85 years. Obviously Warne & McGrath leave huge boots to fill, but I think MacGill & Clark will do admirably in the short-medium term in tests at least, by which time one or more of Johnson, Tait or Hilfenhaus (sp?) will have ripened.

 

[Craig]

I can't, TBH. Rebel-tours are a thing of the past.

Now, if Hussey, Ponting, Hodge, Clark and Gillespie were all to abandon their team and do what Hughes, Yallop, Wessels, Hogg and Alderman did in 1984...

Isn't Gillespie not in the Australian side? Could of sworn he isn't.

 

[pup11]

I think gillespie certainly has a role to play in the future in the test side, he lends experience to aussie seam attack. He is 32 so he still has few years up his sleeve.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

I think the funniest thing about all of this is the ridiculous amount of gloating everybody is throwing around. Stuff like "and you guys always say that you have the best depth in the world and we just proved it wrong by thrashing you in that game."

I certainly don't recall saying that Australia A would beat most other countries, or even recall reading anyone saying that in CC bar the occasional troll. And even if I (or they) did, they certainly wouldn't be able to do it in their first game with most of them batting out of position.

Personally, I hope we do lose the CH series. It'll show how **** the scheduling was and that taking it easy and not trying to win every game could cost you more than a meaningless series before the WC. It can, and IMO, will, cost us the WC.

 

[pasag]

sayo nara
wooo sano wumby sayo nara

EPO Fraz, EPO

 

[Arjun]

Way too much has been said about the so-called decline of the Aussies. The fact is, they haven't played their full-strength team, which is nearly invincible. We can't say that about other teams at full-strength. They still fall into slumps at times. A case in point is the current Indian team, as well as other Indian teams in the last few years. And of course, we've seem Pakistani and Lankan frontline teams get crushed. Can't talk about England, their full-strength ODI side is vastly different from their actually full-strength ODI team.

 

[Richard]

I have to say it does amuse me how quickly people line up to stick the boot into Oz when they have the slightest blip in form.

They've just beaten (arguably) the second-best test side 5-0 FFS, a feat not achieved for 85 years. Obviously Warne & McGrath leave huge boots to fill, but I think MacGill & Clark will do admirably in the short-medium term in tests at least, by which time one or more of Johnson, Tait or Hilfenhaus (sp?) will have ripened.

No-one's ever beaten the 2nd-best Test side 5-0.

And the last time Australia beat anyone 5-0 was 5 years ago, with West Indies.

And anyhow, this thread mostly seems to be about ODIs.

 

[Richard]

Isn't Gillespie not in the Australian side? Could of sworn he isn't.

No, but there's a gap, and Gillespie is clearly in my mind the best of those available to fill it.

 

[Richard]

I can't, TBH. Rebel-tours are a thing of the past.

Now, if Hussey, Ponting, Hodge, Clark and Gillespie were all to abandon their team and do what Hughes, Yallop, Wessels, Hogg and Alderman did in 1984...

*added to Gilchrist retiring now.

 

[open365]

I have to say it does amuse me how quickly people line up to stick the boot into Oz when they have the slightest blip in form.

They've just beaten (arguably) the second-best test side 5-0 FFS, a feat not achieved for 85 years. Obviously Warne & McGrath leave huge boots to fill, but I think MacGill & Clark will do admirably in the short-medium term in tests at least, by which time one or more of Johnson, Tait or Hilfenhaus (sp?) will have ripened.

But it's not just Warne and McGrath.

Langer's gone, Martyn as well, Hayden won't be far behind, Gilchrist isn't the force he was and won't last that much longer.

The next generation of players coming through are still good enough to play international cricket, but they're no where near the class and quality of those they're replacing.

 

[PhoenixFire]

There is no way that this team is going to be better than the one that has just beaten England. McGrath is still the best seamer (apart from Clark) in tests, Warne the best spinner full stop, and langer one of the best openers. They are still a quality side, but they aint gonna be better than the Ashes 06/07 side.

 

[BoyBrumby]

No-one's ever beaten the 2nd-best Test side 5-0.

And the last time Australia beat anyone 5-0 was 5 years ago, with West Indies.

And anyhow, this thread mostly seems to be about ODIs.

I was referring to Australia not having beaten England 5-0 since Warwick Armstrong's team managed it, obviously.

 

[southafrica]

Australian "Depth"

I said in the 2005 ashes series when Glenn Mc Grath was injured and Shaun Tait made his debut that Australia were in trouble. It was no surprise that the Aussies denyed thos fact, but surely now thaey must open their eyes. Pace is not the be all and end all of a good bowler. Look at Sri Lanka's Malinga for example, excellent pace, but not really a match winner like an Ambrose, Lee or Donald. The same can be said for Tait.

Now, Australia have always prided themselves on the exceptional depth which stems from there Domestic Competition, but in the recent Chapple / Hadlee match, nothing could be futher from the truth. Haddin is not even half the player Gilcherst is (or was), Tait has a long way to go before he can fill the boots of a McGrath or Lee, and Hussey's captaincy was really not in the same leuge as Pontings (let alone Flemmings, Jayewardene's or Smith's).

I like the Australian team, which is rare for a South African to admit, but Australia should really face the facts: Cricket works in circles, it is impossible for Australia to be the best team forever, just like the West Indies collapsed when Hooper, Ambrose and Walsh left. Australia will always be competitive in any form of the game, but don't be surprised if their win percentage is equal to the rest of the teams in a few months to come....

 

[age_master]

1) you will cop it for calling Lee a match winner in the same scentence as Donald and Ambrose

2) Haddin is a gun bat, he didn't make a hundred last game, but he wasn't the only one to fail. I would much rather have him in the team then Jaques.

3) It has to be hard for Hussey, hes standing in as captain and the side is missing half of the players its used to having in it, i think he will do alot better in the 2nd game.

 

[southafrica]

Yeah, look, let's give Australia the benefit of the doubt, they play their best cricket under pressure, the only problem is they're still missing Ponting, Gilchrest and Lee, and look what a massive gap it leaves.

This was Hussey's first match as international captain wasn't it? so, I guess he can only improve!

You don't see Lee as a match winner, unfortunatly, he is when he's playing South Africa!!

 

[age_master]

i didn't say i didn't think he was, but lots of people dont rate him.

Dont forget they are also missing Symonds and Clarke - which leave a big hole in the batting and fielding. and means someone else has to bowl a few overs.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

It was Hussey's second match as captain, in his first he scored a hundred.

 

[andyc]

Not reallly sure how you can claim that Tait isn't a matchwinner. He's the sort of bowler that can really rip through a side.

 

[social]

I said in the 2005 ashes series when Glenn Mc Grath was injured and Shaun Tait made his debut that Australia were in trouble. It was no surprise that the Aussies denyed thos fact, but surely now thaey must open their eyes. Pace is not the be all and end all of a good bowler. Look at Sri Lanka's Malinga for example, excellent pace, but not really a match winner like an Ambrose, Lee or Donald. The same can be said for Tait.

Now, Australia have always prided themselves on the exceptional depth which stems from there Domestic Competition, but in the recent Chapple / Hadlee match, nothing could be futher from the truth. Haddin is not even half the player Gilcherst is (or was), Tait has a long way to go before he can fill the boots of a McGrath or Lee, and Hussey's captaincy was really not in the same leuge as Pontings (let alone Flemmings, Jayewardene's or Smith's).

I like the Australian team, which is rare for a South African to admit, but Australia should really face the facts: Cricket works in circles, it is impossible for Australia to be the best team forever, just like the West Indies collapsed when Hooper, Ambrose and Walsh left. Australia will always be competitive in any form of the game, but don't be surprised if their win percentage is equal to the rest of the teams in a few months to come....

IMO, you couldnt be more wrong

Oz has exceptional depth in all areas bar young spinners and we've got MacGill to cover that for a few years anyway

Most of the back-up batsmen would play internationally anywhere else

Haddin and White are good enough to play internationally as batsmen alone

Tait, Johnson, Hilfenhaus and Clark (who cant even get in the team at the moment) are the most promising group of quicks in the world

Whilst it's unrealistic to suggest that we'll keep winning 90% of test matches, we should be no. 1 in that form for quite a few more years

 

[chaminda_00]

Not really sure how you can claim Malinga not a match winner, have you watched him bowl all all in the last 12 months?

Australia depth not as good as they like to think, but no other team really has better depth TBH. If you take out the top players from most teams, they would be found out as well. Even when the next load of guys retire i.e Hayden, Gilchirst, MacGill, Hogg etc they will still have better depth then most teams.