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BREAKING NEWS: Hair removed from the Elite Panel

pasag

RTDAS
all this has been covered and could be found on previous threads. Hair is a Biased bigot who should have been kicked out long before. He also thinks he is bigger than the game and has no common sense. Hair's co-umpire suggested that they should continue playing with the same ball and did not agree to brand Pakistan cheats. Also ICC match referee listened to all the evidence and declaired that their was no conclusive evidence that the ball was tampered.

Bottom Line hair is an Jackass !
Right, we've been through this before, unless you have proof that Hair is a bigot, it's better that you shut the **** up. Calling someone a bigot because they make some stupid decisions against sub-continental teams not only belittles the issue of bigotry but makes you look like an utter fool. Tbh, it's probably better that you stick to quoting poorly written articles like you used to do.
 

LA ICE-E

State Captain
well if he did. then the ball tempering would be true right? well that auccuastion was proven wrong. then too you still have to use common sense with doing everything by the books. he should have warned or something. 1st he didn't use commen sense 2nd. he was wrong at auccusing the pakis of ball tempering 3rd he ended the oval test without telling tha pak team if they didn't take the field they forfiet. all he did was asked if they would take the field and then ended the game. you cant just go by the books you have to use common sense.
 

LA ICE-E

State Captain
Right, we've been through this before, unless you have proof that Hair is a bigot, it's better that you shut the **** up. Calling someone a bigot because they make some stupid decisions against sub-continental teams not only belittles the issue of bigotry but makes you look like an utter fool. Tbh, it's probably better that you stick to quoting poorly written articles like you used to do.
calm down pasag...he's just saying his opinion...he doesn't need proof to do that and is there a proof he isn't a bigot?:p dont fire at me though
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
calm down pasag...he's just saying his opinion...he doesn't need proof to do that and is there a proof he isn't a bigot?:p dont fire at me though
OK, if you don't need proof to label Hair a bigot, I'll happily call you a child molester all day. Same logic.

EDIT: 8-)
 
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Black_Frog

Cricket Spectator
well if he did. then the ball tempering would be true right? well that auccuastion was proven wrong. then too you still have to use common sense with doing everything by the books. he should have warned or something. 1st he didn't use commen sense 2nd. he was wrong at auccusing the pakis of ball tempering 3rd he ended the oval test without telling tha pak team if they didn't take the field they forfiet. all he did was asked if they would take the field and then ended the game. you cant just go by the books you have to use common sense.
no warning is given on the issue of ball tamering,
the ball is replaced, both captains are told of the decision, 5 runs are awarded and the event is reported to the match referee

also, the the umpires jurastiction is the field. the Umpires are not obligated nor allowed to enter the players dressings rooms, if the team reuses to take the field, how can they be warned?

45 mins is a lot of time wasting.
if time wasting of such maginitude was commited on the field, bowlers would be taken out the attack, runs would be awarded and fines dished out by the match referee
 
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LA ICE-E

State Captain
no warning is given on the issue of ball tamering,
the ball is replaced, both captains are told of the decision, 5 runs are awarded and the event is reported to the match referee

also, the the umpires jurastiction is the field. the Umpires are not obligated nor allowed to enter the players dressings rooms, if the team reuses to take the field, how can they be warned?

45 mins is a lot of time wasting.
if time wasting of such maginitude was commited on the field, bowlers would be taken out the attack, runs would be awarded and fines dished out by the match referee
bottom line there was no ball temparing... they didn't have to go into the dressing room..to let the team know they were forfieting....and inzamam was fined with ban for some games for the protest...so both paid but hair was wrong 1st of accusing the team and is the main reason so he paid the most...
 

Dasa

International Vice-Captain
Hey Black_Frog, you can think Hair was hard done by or whatever, but when your post is full of misinformation and just plain lies, it's hard to take you seriously.
 

vicky

School Boy/Girl Captain
What a lot of people defending Hairs actions are neglecting is that a major part of being an elite umpire at the top-level is in your ability to not only get decisions right, but to manage people and situations.

It is in this aspect where Hair has failed abysmally on this occasion. While it is all very well and good knowing and applying the rules strictly at lower levels where the stakes are not as high at the elite level where money, politics and sponsors play such a major role Hair must have realised the consequences his actions were likely to have.

The ICC removed him from the panel not because he was wrong in his decision making, in fact they confirmed he was right to both dock Pakistan the runs and to call the match off under the rules, but rather because someone trusted with the stewardship of the game at this level should have had the ability to manage the situation far better than he did. The PCB's accusations of racism are ridiculous, but no more so than Hair's. He's gone not because he made the wrong decisions, but because he did it in the wrong way.

I don't seek to defend the actions of the Ul Haq in anyway, he was in the wrong and rightly punished by the ICC, likewise Hair's technical decisions were also supported by the ICC as being within the rules of the game. That he was subsequently removed from the panel is merely a manifestation of the fact that the member countries did not have confidence in his judgement his ability to manage something as important as a Test match. (The fact that I believe that his technical ability is distinctly below average is neither here nor there)

PS - on the chucking issue raised above. At the risk of rehashing an argument that has been done a million times; I find it hilarious that someone would hold up his calling of murali as a shining light of his abilities as an umpire. Yes, murali chucked under the rules at the time. What they neglect to mention is that the rules were not changed to accomodate murali but rather that they were changed because all bowlers chucked under the old rules (except for over the wrist spinners - but you try telling Ross Emerson that).

The flaw was not in murali's action but rather in both the rules as they stood and also in the umpires in that they were unable to detect that these bowlers were all "chucking". So don't praise Hair's actions as a sign of courage and a display of his visionary ability to tell that murali was chucking when so many others couldn't. All he saw was an action that was different from the norm, and an opportunity to apply the letter of the law, while (like the rest of us) he blissfully allowed a plethora of other "chuckers" to continue around him.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
how can you not prove a negative? if you could prove a positve you can prove a negative
Err, no. That's simply not how it works.

You can show that something is unlikely or prove things which contradict it, but by definition you can't prove a negative. You can't prove innocence for a crime, you can only show a lack of evidence of guilt. And similarly, it's impossible to prove that God doesn't exist or any similar theoretical concept. Not sure how relevant this is, but it's absurd to expect Hair to "prove that he is not a bigot".
 

Black_Frog

Cricket Spectator
Hey Black_Frog, you can think Hair was hard done by or whatever, but when your post is full of misinformation and just plain lies, it's hard to take you seriously.
and what lies or missinformation would you be refering to?

i have the MCC rule book by my side. Hair acted accordingly and now he is being crucified
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Err, no. That's simply not how it works.

You can show that something is unlikely or prove things which contradict it, but by definition you can't prove a negative. You can't prove innocence for a crime, you can only show a lack of evidence of guilt. And similarly, it's impossible to prove that God doesn't exist or any similar theoretical concept. Not sure how relevant this is, but it's absurd to expect Hair to "prove that he is not a bigot".

Absolutely. It is up to the accuser to prove the allegation he makes. Always.
 

Black_Frog

Cricket Spectator
should the ICC have had a problem with the rational behind Hair's decisions, it should have been played out in private, with no outside influence or pressure from the PCB or any other organisation.

nobody can say that Hair was wrong because IT IS IN THE OPINION OF THE UMPIRE.
These are ICC regulations clearly spelled out in the MCC rule book.

Hair was the senior umpire, and the ICC has entrusted him with thier representation, and they have turned around and said that he as wrong? be realistic.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Right, we've been through this before, unless you have proof that Hair is a bigot, it's better that you shut the **** up. Calling someone a bigot because they make some stupid decisions against sub-continental teams not only belittles the issue of bigotry but makes you look like an utter fool. Tbh, it's probably better that you stick to quoting poorly written articles like you used to do.
TBH, I think he's a bigot too...even if it makes me look like a fool. Outside any controversial calls, just look at how he interacts with specific teams, compared to other teams, and you'll get an idea. But like you said, we have gone over this before and if its taken to court, they don't have to prove that he is a bigot, just that he wasn't doing his job properly.
 

Dasa

International Vice-Captain
and what lies or missinformation would you be refering to?

i have the MCC rule book by my side. Hair acted accordingly and now he is being crucified
The PCB neved called Hair a racist.
The Sri Lanka Cricket Board never called Hair a racist either. Nothing to do with 'political correctness gone mad'.
Your assessment of the 'chucking' issue is misguided and innacurate. No matter how many times people say it, the rules weren't changed just to allow Murali to continue bowling legally.
Hair was given a chance to state his side of the story in the hearing following the match at The Oval.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
hair was wrong accusing the pakis of ball temparing and he have been proven wrong too!
Once again, no, he hasn't been proven wrong. The decision was that there was insufficient evidence to prove that Pakistan tampered with the ball, and accordingly they were exonerated. That doesn't mean Hair was wrong though, because he's not required to "prove" anything on the field of play. Hair isn't expected to prove LBW calls or anything either, because he's an ultimate authority and not a judge. An umpire doesn't need proof of anything, just their judgement.
 

vicky

School Boy/Girl Captain
should the ICC have had a problem with the rational behind Hair's decisions, it should have been played out in private, with no outside influence or pressure from the PCB or any other organisation.

nobody can say that Hair was wrong because IT IS IN THE OPINION OF THE UMPIRE.
These are ICC regulations clearly spelled out in the MCC rule book.

Hair was the senior umpire, and the ICC has entrusted him with thier representation, and they have turned around and said that he as wrong? be realistic.
The ICC is a collective of its members... the PCB and the Sri Lankan Board among them... so to say it shouldn't pay heed to the influence of the PCB is wrong... more correctly it shouldn't act only because of the PCB... the decision was made by the ICC under the authority provided to it by it's member nations...

No one is doubting that Hair acted within the letter of the law... whether he did the right and proper thing however is where the real bone of contention lies...

Yes Hair was the SENIOR umpire entrusted with the care of the game... the ICC now no longer have that trust in him and so have removed him from the elite panel... what is the problem?

PS - was going to point out all the factual inaccuracies in you're arguments but someone has already done that and aside from which even the falsehoods you use don't really counterpoint any of the arguments others are raising

Once again, no, he hasn't been proven wrong. The decision was that there was insufficient evidence to prove that Pakistan tampered with the ball, and accordingly they were exonerated. That doesn't mean Hair was wrong though, because he's not required to "prove" anything on the field of play. Hair isn't expected to prove LBW calls or anything either, because he's an ultimate authority and not a judge. An umpire doesn't need proof of anything, just their judgement.
Correct... but again we go around in circles around the same point... Hair was completely entitled to act in the way he did under the letter of the Law... and for that he was rightly supported by the ICC... now the ICC feels that he may have handled the situation in a better way and that he is not suitable for a place on the leite panel... again i ask... what is the issue?
 

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