Who do you think are the best and worst odi captains currently?

[Richard]

Can you please explain that comment, Richard?

Well... I'd read plenty of glowing appreciations of Rixon's contribution to New Zealand.

I've read virtually nothing whatsoever about Aberhart. Positive or negative. I've read countless negative stuff about Bracewell (and not really much positive stuff, either! Makes it a bit of a mystery why he's never had his position questioned), on the other hand.

I always thought it was taken for granted that Rixon was held in esteem as NZ's greatest-ever national coach?

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Fiery]

Well... I'd read plenty of glowing appreciations of Rixon's contribution to New Zealand.

I've read virtually nothing whatsoever about Aberhart. Positive or negative. I've read countless negative stuff about Bracewell (and not really much positive stuff, either! Makes it a bit of a mystery why he's never had his position questioned), on the other hand.

I always thought it was taken for granted that Rixon was held in esteem as NZ's greatest-ever national coach?

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes he is/was considered a very good coach. I was referring to the comment you made in brackets.

 

[Richard]

Oh, right.

I always consider a national coach to be best coming from outside his own country.

Pretty much everyone has experienced such a thing...

Bob Woolmer (English) with South Africa (and now Pakistan)

Obviously us with Duncan Fletcher (Zimbabwean)

India with John Wright (New Zealand)

New Zealand with Rixon

Sri Lanka with Dav Whatmore (Australia)

West Indies already with Bennett King (Australia)

Only Australia have defied said convention.

 

[Fiery]

Oh, right.

I always consider a national coach to be best coming from outside his own country.

Pretty much everyone has experienced such a thing...

Bob Woolmer (English) with South Africa (and now Pakistan)

Obviously us with Duncan Fletcher (Zimbabwean)

India with John Wright (New Zealand)

New Zealand with Rixon

Sri Lanka with Dav Whatmore (Australia)

West Indies already with Bennett King (Australia)

Only Australia have defied said convention.

Ah, I see. I thought you were making a disparaging comment about kiwis being incapable of being good coaches but seems I misinterpreted you. You make a good point there, however I would love for John Wright to coach the Black Caps at some stage.

 

[pup11]

In cricket i hardly believe coach can too big a role. He can point out a flaw in a players game, or make plans but beyond that its upto the players. The captain is the main man, he holds the key in cricket.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

The coach is like a film producer. He orchestrates the action by assigning roles, enforcing discipline and seeing through the process. The coach is essential.

The captain is the director. He gets the actors to do what they're meant to do.

 

[sideshowtim]

Depends how you like your captaincy. If you're looking for a strong and inspirational leader who is great at rallying his troops and getting them to rise for the occasion then Ponting is definitely your man. There is no better than him at it. Worst at this is Flintoff after this Ashes series for sure.

Tactics, I'd say Vaughan. Fleming showed in the last ODI against Australia where he held the PP till the 34th over with Ponting and Hayden set that his tactical nous is somewhat overrated.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Tactics, I'd say Vaughan. Fleming showed in the last ODI against Australia where he held the PP till the 34th over with Ponting and Hayden set that his tactical nous is somewhat overrated.

One error of judgement shows he's overrated?

It's hardly tactical brilliance to - as most captains do - use all the powerplays at once.

 

[Richard]

Ah, I see. I thought you were making a disparaging comment about kiwis being incapable of being good coaches but seems I misinterpreted you.

Jesse thought I was saying the same thing about Indian coaches when I mentioned it and he read it, too.

You make a good point there, however I would love for John Wright to coach the Black Caps at some stage.

It'd certainly be interesting.

I'd certaily back him to do a better job than Bracewell.

Sans-Astle, though, whether his record would be as good, I'm not sure.

But I certainly think he'd ruffle fewer feathers and bring more harmony. It amazes me how disruptive Bracewell is often portrayed as being to NZ.

 

[Richard]

The coach is like a film producer. He orchestrates the action by assigning roles, enforcing discipline and seeing through the process. The coach is essential.

The captain is the director. He gets the actors to do what they're meant to do.

He bowls the ball for them and faces the deliveries, does he?

The players are the only ones who can get themselves to do what they're meant to do. Blaming captains and coaches is an easy way out for underperforming players IMO.

 

[Richard]

Fleming showed in the last ODI against Australia where he held the PP till the 34th over with Ponting and Hayden set that his tactical nous is somewhat overrated.

He'd have been better to take it when they were flying along earlier, would he?

 

[shortpitched713]

It's hardly tactical brilliance to - as most captains do - use all the powerplays at once.

Just because it isn't tactical brilliance doesn't mean its not the right thing to do most of the time. I hate it when coaches/captains make unconventional decisions for no good reason other than the fact they're full of themselves. Just because its out of the box doesn't mean its brilliant ffs.

 

[Tim]

Rixon changed NZ's fortunes if you ask me. He brought an Australian like culture to the team and alot of guys hardened up, particularly Fleming and Cairns. He was also the one who helped gamble on Vettori at the age of 18.

I have had relatively good word from Christchurch that both John Wright and Steve Rixon are two names I have been told about as being in the mix for the coaching job after the WC. NZ cricket are not happy with Bracewell's methods.

 

[Richard]

Just because it isn't tactical brilliance doesn't mean its not the right thing to do most of the time. I hate it when coaches/captains make unconventional decisions for no good reason other than the fact they're full of themselves. Just because its out of the box doesn't mean its brilliant ffs.

The whole point of the Powerplays was to try and mix things up a bit.

Defies the point if captains just take all three at once so often.

Sometimes it's indeed the sensible thing to do. Other times, it's better to wait.

 

[Richard]

Rixon changed NZ's fortunes if you ask me. He brought an Australian like culture to the team and alot of guys hardened up, particularly Fleming and Cairns. He was also the one who helped gamble on Vettori at the age of 18.

I have had relatively good word from Christchurch that both John Wright and Steve Rixon are two names I have been told about as being in the mix for the coaching job after the WC. NZ cricket are not happy with Bracewell's methods.

A second stint for Rixon?

Can only hope The ECB have the same idea with Duncan Fletcher in 2013...

 

[sideshowtim]

He'd have been better to take it when they were flying along earlier, would he?

Certainly then to get them out of the way than use them in the 34th over when 2 of the best international batsmen in the world have their eye in 100% and are well past 50. It was idiotic captaincy. It's what happens when trying to be unconvential goes too far.

 

[sideshowtim]

One error of judgement shows he's overrated?

It's hardly tactical brilliance to - as most captains do - use all the powerplays at once.

Doesn't have to be tactical brilliance, in most cases it's common bloody sense. Australia were not scoring at a ridiculously alarming rate, NZ could've afforded to use them. That 34-39 over stint really set us up for the last 10 overs. It was a silly decision.

 

[Richard]

Certainly then to get them out of the way than use them in the 34th over when 2 of the best international batsmen in the world have their eye in 100% and are well past 50. It was idiotic captaincy. It's what happens when trying to be unconvential goes too far.

Simple fact of the matter is, there was no time after the compulsary Powerplay when they didn't look very good. Had someone managed to take one of those early Hayden catches, things would've been different.

Your best bet is to try and get them out, then take the thing immidiately. We've seen that happen loads. Obviously, there's always going to be the odd occasion where people just go on and on and on. This was one. Therefore Fleming was made to look silly by making a sensible decision. Just like Hussain in 2002\03 in the Test at The 'Gabba.

 

[Dick Rockett]

I think Fleming's best captaincy overlapped the two tenures. His two greatest achievements were in England in 1999 (under Rixon) and in Australia in 2001\02 (under Aberhart).

Just goes to show that the best coaches always have impressive moustaches

 

[Dick Rockett]

Certainly then to get them out of the way than use them in the 34th over when 2 of the best international batsmen in the world have their eye in 100% and are well past 50. It was idiotic captaincy. It's what happens when trying to be unconvential goes too far.

I wouldn't be surprised if he was saving the second powerplay for the fall of the next wicket. It didn't pay off, but jeez, that's not evidence that Fleming is a rubbish captain.