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***Official*** Pakistan in South Africa

shortpitched713

International Captain
I very much doubt that. You ask Inzy whether he'd prefer an away test series victory against South Africa or a ODI series victory in a series which will be forgotten in 5 days after the series is completed, he'd definitely take the test series win. So would Woolmer, and so would the selectors.

You're way off the mark. Fair enough putting a WC win above a test series (though even that's somewhat debateable, and if true not by much), but don't wash away this test series as if its nothing. Eng are the only non-Aussie team to beat SA in SA since re-admission. That means a lot.
The reason this ODI series is more important than the Test series simply has to do with its close proximity to the World Cup. A Test series loss would be just that, a Test series loss. Losing the ODI series in a convincing manner would be a huge setback to their World Cup chances.

Of course, normally I'd value a 3 Test series over a 5 ODI series, but not by much.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
all I am saying is there are lots and lots of people out there that care about ODIs. And yes I do remember ODI matches and series in the past few years, along with Tests. And I am sure a lot of other people do too.
I do too, if India had lost to WI yesterday I would have been disappointed, as I was when we lost the ODI series to Pakistan in 2005, the ODI series in the WI earlier this year etc.

However a test series win will always cover the disappointment of a ODI series loss. For example, you ask any Australian whether they remember the ODI series victory they had over India in 2001 I bet they won't. Do they remember their 2-1 loss in the test series? Without a doubt they will.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
The reason this ODI series is more important than the Test series simply has to do with its close proximity to the World Cup. A Test series loss would be just that, a Test series loss. Losing the ODI series in a convincing manner would be a huge setback to their World Cup chances.

Of course, normally I'd value a 3 Test series over a 5 ODI series, but not by much.
One should not resist making changes to a test team just because it is close to the World Cup though. The test side should be effected by such matters really.

And, as I said, if Akmal can't see that he is performing poorly and attempt to pick up his game, he really shouldn't be in either the test side or the World Cup squad. If ZQ is any good, Akmal should be dropped.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
The reason this ODI series is more important than the Test series simply has to do with its close proximity to the World Cup.
This whole idea of proximity to the WC is incredibly overrated. India got well and truly belted in NZ in 2002/03 before the 2003 WC, but had a very good campaign. Why? Because the conditions were totally different. NZ had a mediocre campaign and they were on fire prior to the WC. Then you've got SL losing to Australia in Australia back in 95/96 (when Kalu and Jayasuriya started to show their goods at the top of the order), but they ended up winning the WC over Australia in the final, in totally different conditions (sub-continent hosts).

I'm not saying its not important to win a series before the WC, it always helps, but by God this test series victory in SA (if it does happen) would be unbelievably historic. It'd be huge.
 

Turbinator

Cricketer Of The Year
I do too, if India had lost to WI yesterday I would have been disappointed, as I was when we lost the ODI series to Pakistan in 2005, the ODI series in the WI earlier this year etc.

However a test series win will always cover the disappointment of a ODI series loss. For example, you ask any Australian whether they remember the ODI series victory they had over India in 2001 I bet they won't. Do they remember their 2-1 loss in the test series? Without a doubt they will.
Yup pretty much agree with that, except that a Test series win, tbh, wont cover the disappointment of an ODI series loss for me. I will certainly be happier with a Test series win, happier than I would be with an ODI series win, but it certainly won't cover my dissapointment. We can be amazing in one format of the game, but if we are crap in the other format I will be quite disappointed. After all our ODI form does effect our performance in the WC.

EDIT: What I mean to say is with a Test series win and an ODI series loss... I won't be :(... I will be :)... but I won't be :D either.
 
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shortpitched713

International Captain
I have no clue how good this backup keeper is, but if he'd do a better job than Akmal then he should be playing. The same goes for the World Cup that you hold so dear, for that matter.
I just don't think replacing him for one Test would make that much of a difference, really. Haider in all probability wouldn't do any better than Akmal could be expected to do in the next Test, and I could see him doing considerably worse in the long run. Also, I think if we wanted to bring him in for the World Cup, it would have to be in this ODI series. I would want him to be fully prepared by the time of the World Cup to play at this level, and I'd also want to give him time to get used to keeping for our bowlers. Its a moot point though, because he really isn't better than Akmal has shown he can be.
 
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shortpitched713

International Captain
Picking your test team based on the repercussions it may or may not have on the one day side - World Cup or not - is completely ridiculous.
Ah, the reverse Duncan Fletcher strategy. Don't see why it couldn't be useful, especially if it was right before the most important cricket event on the planet.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
I just don't think replacing him for one Test would make that much of a difference, really. Haider in all probability wouldn't do any better than Akmal could be expected to do in the next Test, and I could see him doing considerably worse in the long run. Also, I think if we wanted to bring him in for the World Cup, it would have to be in this ODI series. I would want him to be fully prepared by the time of the World Cup to play at this level, and I'd also want to give him time to get used to keeping for our bowlers. Its a moot point though, because he really isn't better than Akmal has shown he can be.
Again, I stopped reading as soon as a hit the words "World Cup." What on earth does the world cup have to do with this test series? Keep the focus on the game - or at least the form of the game - at hand.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Ah, the reverse Duncan Fletcher strategy. Don't see why it couldn't be useful, especially if it was right before the most important cricket event on the planet.
Clearly that is your opinion, and clearly that opinion is not shared by all.

The integrity of test cricket should not be compromised just to not disrupt the ODI side, regardless of what tournament it happens to be.
 

shortpitched713

International Captain
Again, I stopped reading as soon as a hit the words "World Cup."
I'm sorry, I believe you had mentioned World Cup in your earlier post stating that the same selection policy of "picking the one who's most likely to win you the game" should be applied to that as well. Apologize if I misread, but the latter part of my post reffers to that.
 

shortpitched713

International Captain
Clearly that is your opinion, and clearly that opinion is not shared by all.
Of course that is my opinion, and I understand why some might disagree with it. I just feel that both the forms of the game are more interrelated than you would imply they are.

Of course if you would like to believe that Test and ODI selection policy should be totally independent, then thats your opinion and I wholly respect your right to it.
 

shortpitched713

International Captain
Yeah when you lose Inzy, Yousuf and Shoaib (who is pretty much gone)?

Silly post.
Bowlers win you Test matches. Inzy and and Yousef might be gone, but at that point we would have a mature Asif, Gul, and Kaneria. Shoaib doesn't enter into calculations much because there's a good chance he would be unfit anyway. Its a lot more complicated than looking at which players would retire, because then you could look at South Africa and say they'd lose Kallis, Pollock, Boucher, and Gibbs and things would look worse for them. I made my statement looking at the trend over the past few years of Pakistan improving in Test cricket, and South Africa generally in a decline.
 

Fusion

Global Moderator
Shoaib and Gul might return home

Shoaib also likely to face an inquiry regarding the spat he had with Woolmer. From the article:

Apart from a decision over Shoaib, the team manager Talat Ali would also conduct an inquiry into an incident that was telecasted on sports channels around the world showing Shoaib exchanging hot words with his coach Bob Woolmer in the Pakistan team dressing room before the start of play on Saturday.

“I have talked with Talat on this particular incident,” said Altaf. “The manager has assured the Board that he would conduct an inquiry and then take action if required. The Board has told the manager that it would support any decision he takes over the issue,” he added.

Just a day before his spat with Woolmer, Shoaib took four key wickets to help Pakistan skittle out South Africa for a paltry 124 on the opening day of the second Test.

His inability to bowl on the second day sparked speculations that Shoaib could have faked an injury because of his war of words with Woolmer.

However, Altaf refrained from making any further comments on the incident saying that the Board would be in a better position to deal with it after the manager’s inquiry."
 

shortpitched713

International Captain
:(

Not good news for Pakistan's chances of winning this series. Hopefully they will be fit by the time of the ODI series. I'm not too optimistic about Shoaib recovering in time though.
 

Fusion

Global Moderator
:(

Not good news for Pakistan's chances of winning this series. Hopefully they will be fit by the time of the ODI series. I'm not too optimistic about Shoaib recovering in time though.
Bad news indeed. Shabbir and Razzaq may be called up. Huge drop off from Shoaib and Gul for sure.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
I can't fathom anyone saying we should knowingly send an inferior side in a Test match just because of the close proximity to an ODI tournament. Apparently, people do say that but its still hard for me to believe.
 

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