Justin Langer set to announce retirement

[Turbinator]

There those averages make my case stronger for keeping Sehwag and not Jaffer for the third test, adharcric and SS.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

You forgot quite a lot of other opening partnerships which have better averages- Following is the list to help you .

I'm familiar with the averages thanks. Luckily, it's possible to judge cricketers in other ways. The only ones on that list other than the top pair which are close to Langer and Hayden are Simpson/Lawry and Boycott/Edrich, and Hayden/Langer are marginally ahead of both of them IMO. The other pairing that is close to Hayden/Langer is Greenidge/Haynes, who have more runs but a lesser average.

Regardless, they are clearly one of the best opening pairings of all time, and comfortably the best of the last 15-20 years.

 

[Beleg]

None of them played as many games with as much consistency on so many track all over the world against so many bowling line-ups.

 

[JASON]

Greenidge and Fredericks, Goddard and Barlow, Rae and Stollmeyer , Gooch and Atherton , Rhodes and Hobbs, Hutton and Washbrook definitely up among the top ahead of Langer and Hayden. You have to remember they played in an era where not enough Tests were played .

 

[silentstriker]

I'm familiar with the averages thanks. Luckily, it's possible to judge cricketers in other ways. The only ones on that list other than the top pair which are close to Langer and Hayden are Simpson/Lawry and Boycott/Edrich, and Hayden/Langer are marginally ahead of both of them IMO. The other pairing that is close to Hayden/Langer is Greenidge/Haynes, who have more runs but a lesser average.

Regardless, they are clearly one of the best opening pairings of all time, and comfortably the best of the last 15-20 years.

I think Slats + Taylor was very good too, actually. Faced superior bowling. But I agree with you, I think.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Longevity is an important part of it as well, and so is the value of both batsmen as a combination and as individuals. Comparing say Greenidge/Haynes with Gavaskar/Chauhan, I just can't rate the second pair that highly because one of the batsmen wasn't a significant threat, and the same goes for Hobbs/Rhodes. It's also much easier to maintain a good average over a series or two than over 5+ years and 50+ tests. Smith and DeVilliers are an example of this.

Anyway, I think there's a few on that list that are in the same league as Hayden/Langer, but very few pairs combine such runscoring with such a lengthy stay at the top of the order. Comfortably in the top 5 IMO, and a fair candidate for the 2nd best opening pair ever.

 

[silentstriker]

Longevity is an important part of it as well, and so is the value of both batsmen as a combination and as individuals. Comparing say Greenidge/Haynes with Gavaskar/Chauhan, I just can't rate the second pair that highly because one of the batsmen wasn't a significant threat, and the same goes for Hobbs/Rhodes. It's also much easier to maintain a good average over a series or two than over 5+ years and 50+ tests. Smith and DeVilliers are an example of this.

Anyway, I think there's a few on that list that are in the same league as Hayden/Langer, but very few pairs combine such runscoring with such a lengthy stay at the top of the order. Comfortably in the top 5 IMO, and a fair candidate for the 2nd best opening pair ever.

Faaip, as an aussie, what are your thoughts on Slats + Taylor? I've always rated them very highly.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Faaip, as an aussie, what are your thoughts on Slats + Taylor? I've always rated them very highly.

I think they're a little overrated in the same way that a lot of batsmen from 10 years ago are overrated compared to the modern ones. It's just a natural focus on the flaws of current batsmen compared to past batsmen though, and I'm sure the same will be true in 10 years time of future greats against Ponting, Dravid, Kallis etc.

They were definitely a good opening pair, but not on the same level as Langer and Hayden. Taylor was my favourite cricketer for years and I loved his guts (no pun intended) and the determination he batted with, but he certainly wasn't all that naturally gifted. He relied on a good technique and disciplined batting to make his runs and was prone to long lapses of poor form. After the early 90s he was never a world class batsman, just a solid one.

Slater was more in the Hayden or modern Langer mould of being a very aggressive batsman and was more attractive to watch than either of them, but his record shows his weaknesses IMO. He was prone to getting a start and not converting it, and half of his test centuries were against England. For all the talk of him facing "better attacks" he rarely made big scores against them. Had good averages against most nations but was never someone who dominated the good attacks of his time like Waugh. He also struggled a fair amount in the subcontient and could be vulnerable against spin. Home average of 52 and away average of 35 says a fair amount.

A lot of those problems are forgotten as time passes of course, while everyone remembers Hayden's troubles against the inswinger and Langer's weakness against spin early in his innings at the moment. Those will fade too.

 

[howardj]

Longevity is a key consideration. However, things must be put in context, with Langer and Hayden.

Their union co-incided with a deterioration in pace bowling. Note that I think spin bowling has actually been quite strong. However, the standard of opening bowlers (the guys Langer and Hayden face off against) has undeniably deteriorated. In 2001, guys like Akram, Ambrose, Walsh, Waqar and Donald had either just retired or were on their last legs. I mean, who were the opening combinations for the Windies in the 1990's, as compared to the 2000's? Same for Pakistan.

Around this time, or perhaps in 2002-2003, pitches have flattened out also. I just don't think it's a co-incidence that guys like Langer and Hayden struggled in Test cricket up until this time. Then, in subsequent years, they stepped on the gas. Even guys like Ponting, Dravid and Kallis - all their averages have gone through the roof in the last four years.

Yes, they are all very good players in their own right, but it's the vast improvement that I'm looking at. Did they all make a sudden improvement - or has the standard of pace bowling and the flatness of pitches been key? A bit of both. But a bit more of the latter, than the former, I suspect.

 

[Buddhmaster]

I'm devestated. Nothing else to say really.

 

[Perm]

***Official*** Justin Langer Tribute Thread

 

[Craig]

Marvellous little character, I'll really miss him. One of my favourites. I'm just waiting in terror to see how long it is until Gilchrist calls it quits.

Who's more Australian in disguise?

You or SS?

Anyway wait now for the x-rated video of Langer and Hayden to be posted up on the internet after this Test...

 

[silentstriker]

Who's more Australian in disguise?

You or SS?

Anyway wait now for the x-rated video of Langer and Hayden to be posted up on the internet after this Test...

Haha, its really weird. I despise Australian cricket (because they are way too professional, doesn't give our shoddy unprofessional bunch a shot to ever challenge them seriously), but I love Australian players. Its a weird thing that I struggle with every day.

 

[Craig]

Is that a sign you need professional help?

 

[PhoenixFire]

Haha, its really weird. I despise Australian cricket (because they are way too professional, doesn't give our shoddy unprofessional bunch a shot to ever challenge them seriously), but I love Australian players. Its a weird thing that I struggle with every day.

I'm totally the opposite, depise the players like you wouldn't believe.

 

[silentstriker]

Is that a sign you need professional help?

Yes.