Lillian Thomson
Hall of Fame Member
Ha ha ha ha ha ha.
I've heard people say that, but it looks even funnier in print.
I've heard people say that, but it looks even funnier in print.
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If Vaughan, Trescothick and Jones had been fit England would have won.
- Thread starter Lillian Thomson
- Start date
Mister Wright
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
If Vaughan was fit it would have been a different series. He is a class above most batsman and has prospered befored in Australian conditions, he was probably the biggest loss of the tour especially given his role as captain. I don't think Trescothick would have done any better than Cook, with one good score with some mediocre scores. Jones is also a big loss, certainly a better bowler than Anderson and Mahmood. Would they have won? Maybe, not sure though, but would have been a much closer series.
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
Maybe would have been 3-0-1 at this point.
BoyBrumby
Englishman
Too many ponderables to answer definitively for mine. I personally doubt Vaughan would've been half as effective a batter as he was in 2002/3; he's been on a gentle downward slope ever since really & his presence would've probably meant Collingwood missed out. There's no doubt we've missed his captaincy tho &, analogous to this, we've also missed Freddie the God from 2005, in his place we have the sadly human Andrew Flintoff. Of course his injuries have has an effect on Fred, but to my mind the captaincy has adversely affected him too. He looks palpably burdened by his dual/treble/quadruple role and the joie de vivre has largely gone. Which is rather sad as he's an absolute force of nature & a joy to behold when hitting his straps.
Jones is another hard call to make. The reverse swinging genius of 2005 is obviously a huge miss, but let's not forget he was actually dropped for the 4th test of our SA tour the previous winter. Whether his Extra Strongs would've been as effective on the Kookaburra as they were on the Duke is also difficult to say with any degree of certainty. The consensus is that the Kookaburra isn't as conducive to reverse so it's probably fair to say he may not have been as effective, but it's equally fair to say he'd have done better than Anderson or Mahmood.
Tres is possibly a bit of a red herring as he's never really been at his zenith v Australia.
If all were fit & in form it would've made a difference, we could conceivably have won in either Adelaide or Perth but I suspect we'd still be behind.
Jones is another hard call to make. The reverse swinging genius of 2005 is obviously a huge miss, but let's not forget he was actually dropped for the 4th test of our SA tour the previous winter. Whether his Extra Strongs would've been as effective on the Kookaburra as they were on the Duke is also difficult to say with any degree of certainty. The consensus is that the Kookaburra isn't as conducive to reverse so it's probably fair to say he may not have been as effective, but it's equally fair to say he'd have done better than Anderson or Mahmood.
Tres is possibly a bit of a red herring as he's never really been at his zenith v Australia.
If all were fit & in form it would've made a difference, we could conceivably have won in either Adelaide or Perth but I suspect we'd still be behind.
Tomm NCCC
International 12th Man
Vaughans last tour in Australia he had a great time, Trescothick always hits runs against Australia, a 50 every other innings which would probably save us in at least one game (I dont know which one, though) and Simon Jones is always great, It wouldve been a better contest and you wouldve been sweating a fair bit more, i tell you that
aussie
Hall of Fame Member
Vaughan would have made a big difference in the quality of captaincy in that his tactics would have been much better than what we've seen Freddie do in some crucial stages of the series notably @ the MCG when England had Australia 84/5 & Flintoff went on the defensive. His batting however could have been a struggle just like the rest since since 2002/03 his batting has gradually declined.
Jones may have brought more solid consistency to the attack than Anderson & Mahmood have struggled to do. But with reverse swing no being that much in the series other than periods during the adelaide test & the MCG test, if Freddie/Hoggard the two best bowlers on show overall struggled to limit Australia's batsmen in the absense of England's reverse swing weapon of 2005, it would be a bit a tight call to say Jones could have done it.
Trescothick would have been a reassuring presence at the top (if he brain wasn't all over the place unfortunately). May have had a a decent series. Hopefully he'll be back though.
Overall things would have definately been more competitive if all three were fully and playing well & the series could have seriously lived up to the hype, Australia may not have the Ashes as yet & Warne could have played untill 2009.
Ah well bring on 2009..
Jones may have brought more solid consistency to the attack than Anderson & Mahmood have struggled to do. But with reverse swing no being that much in the series other than periods during the adelaide test & the MCG test, if Freddie/Hoggard the two best bowlers on show overall struggled to limit Australia's batsmen in the absense of England's reverse swing weapon of 2005, it would be a bit a tight call to say Jones could have done it.
Trescothick would have been a reassuring presence at the top (if he brain wasn't all over the place unfortunately). May have had a a decent series. Hopefully he'll be back though.
Overall things would have definately been more competitive if all three were fully and playing well & the series could have seriously lived up to the hype, Australia may not have the Ashes as yet & Warne could have played untill 2009.
Ah well bring on 2009..
Tom Halsey
International Coach
Would have been closer, doubt we'd have won.
33/3from3.3
International Vice-Captain
No way Jose'
Neil Pickup
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Award for most amusing use of apostrophes 2006 goes to...33/3from3.3 said:
Son Of Coco
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Lillian Thomson said:Ha ha ha ha ha ha.
I've heard people say that, but it looks even funnier in print.
i don't know that jones would've made that much of a difference, an in-form vaughan and trescothick might have and relieved of the burdens of captaincy, flintoff might have played much better, the scoreline might have altered a little but the end result would still have been the same....
sideshowtim
Banned
Wow, how overrated is Vaughan? Lucky he's a decent captain or his spot would be in danger. He averages 35 since he has become captain.
Trescothick - Mentally weak, would've gone for single figures in every match. Wouldn't have the strength for a long series
Jones - Had, what, 4 good matches? And people were hailing him as one of the best bowlers to walk the earth. The other English bowlers can't reverse swing the Kookaburra, gentlemen, so Jones wouldn't have.
Still would've been 4-0.
Trescothick - Mentally weak, would've gone for single figures in every match. Wouldn't have the strength for a long series
Jones - Had, what, 4 good matches? And people were hailing him as one of the best bowlers to walk the earth. The other English bowlers can't reverse swing the Kookaburra, gentlemen, so Jones wouldn't have.
Still would've been 4-0.