*Official* England in West Indies

[GIMH]

I don't care whether HawkEye is used or not, but I do think it's ridiculous that HotSpot and Snickometer can't be used.

I think they should use Hawkeye to see where it pitches and hits, don't have to use the projection if they don't trust it

 

[Woodster]

I don't think they batted poorly as such but I don't think they batted well. I wouldn't think either batted especially well even if both had not given the chances the deliveries they did. Both played reasonably after (rather than despite) their early chances, but no more than reasonably. And no, they'd not have had the chance to play reasonably had those chances been taken.

Still, no-one seems agreed on how easy the Ambrose "chance" (or otherwise) actually was.

They won't be happy with offering the chances in the first place, and had they been taken we wouldn't have had chance to see much of either them. I'll have to disagree, I think they both batted well, even factoring in the condition of the pitch and state of the game. Edwards certainly tested Bopara's mettle, and temperament.

On the Ambrose chance, I think in normal time you are inclined to say Ramdin should have taken it. When you see the slow motion, you see the appreciable deflection Ambrose got on it, and also the fact it was a cut shot (far too close to play it mind) meant he played it very late and Ramdin had no time to alter the position of his gloves, imo.

 

[tooextracool]

Honestly, I cant believe anyone would even bother rating someone's performance on this pitch. Sorry, but even on this pitch, despite the fact that Ambrose got a lot of runs, I can tell that his technique is still not up to the mark for test match cricket. His technique on the drive is precarious and as he was exposed last summer he is essentially a player that relies on width and bad length. Good luck to him, I hope he doesnt play another test (which would almost certainly have happened had Prior not missed this test and given Davies rise up the ranks) but unfortunately I fear that people will use this performance as a way to suggest that he should once again be next in line should Prior's duties come under scrutiny.

 

[Woodster]

Honestly, I cant believe anyone would even bother rating someone's performance on this pitch. Sorry, but even on this pitch, despite the fact that Ambrose got a lot of runs, I can tell that his technique is still not up to the mark for test match cricket. His technique on the drive is precarious and as he was exposed last summer he is essentially a player that relies on width and bad length. Good luck to him, I hope he doesnt play another test (which would almost certainly have happened had Prior not missed this test and given Davies rise up the ranks) but unfortunately I fear that people will use this performance as a way to suggest that he should once again be next in line should Prior's duties come under scrutiny.

When judging his performance today, you cannot refer to deliveries that exposed him last year. We were concentrating solely on how he batted today, and as we've discussed, the conditions and morale of the opponents certainly made batting much easier, however, runs still need to be put on the board. Would be much happier sat in that changing room as Bopara, with 104 runs on the board, than Owais Shah, who missed out.

 

[Richard]

I think they should use Hawkeye to see where it pitches and hits, don't have to use the projection if they don't trust it

By the "use HawkEye" I meant "use the predictive element of it". As I say, it's more or less immaterial - I can hardly think of one occasion where it's really made something that looked obviously n\o look obviously out. However, Snicko and Hotto can actually help, loads, every now and then. They can make something that's completely inconclusive into something as conclusive as anything ever is.

 

[tooextracool]

When judging his performance today, you cannot refer to deliveries that exposed him last year. We were concentrating solely on how he batted today, and as we've discussed, the conditions and morale of the opponents certainly made batting much easier, however, runs still need to be put on the board. Would be much happier sat in that changing room as Bopara, with 104 runs on the board, than Owais Shah, who missed out.

I am judging his performance today based on his technique today. Just because he scored 76*(95) doesnt mean he didnt display any technical frailities. Geraint Jones displayed temperamental frailities on his way to his first test match 100 in a very similar vein.

Personally, I dont think anyone should be dropped based solely on a performance on a pitch where you could bat with an old man's cane and still score runs.

 

[Richard]

On the Ambrose chance, I think in normal time you are inclined to say Ramdin should have taken it. When you see the slow motion, you see the appreciable deflection Ambrose got on it, and also the fact it was a cut shot (far too close to play it mind) meant he played it very late and Ramdin had no time to alter the position of his gloves, imo.

If there's any sizeable deflection on a ball when the wicketkeeper's standing-up, he's virtually no chance of catching it.

At least, not unless he actually has his gloves in the wrong place ITFP, which of course involves poor rather than good wicketkeeping so hence won't be seen all that often.

 

[Woodster]

Gayle seemed to be spewing when he was given out. I know he's not a fan of this referral system, don't think that will endear him any. However, the right decision seemed to be made, still don't like it myself though.

 

[Woodster]

If there's any sizeable deflection on a ball when the wicketkeeper's standing-up, he's virtually no chance of catching it.

At least, not unless he actually has his gloves in the wrong place ITFP, which of course involves poor rather than good wicketkeeping so hence won't be seen all that often.

Not likely to be seen at this level. You're hopeful of a fortunate rebound off the keepers gloves straight in the air to slip, or enough time in the air for the keeper to compose himself and take the catch second time, but it doesn't happen too often.

Just talking off taking catches on the rebound. Do you remember Geraint Jones' stunning effort in the Ashes, can't remember who it was that spilled it in the slips and he threw himself one-handed to take the rebound. Fantastic effort.

 

[Woodster]

I am judging his performance today based on his technique today. Just because he scored 76*(95) doesnt mean he didnt display any technical frailities. Geraint Jones displayed temperamental frailities on his way to his first test match 100 in a very similar vein.

Personally, I dont think anyone should be dropped based solely on a performance on a pitch where you could bat with an old man's cane and still score runs.

No I agree that technical frailties can still exist. So if those that scored runs count for nothing, what we do with those that failed to make an impression, on such a perfect pitch ?

 

[Richard]

They (or rather, he - Shah) missed a massive opportunity.

 

[Woodster]

They (or rather, he - Shah) missed a massive opportunity.

Yes there was only Shah that missed out really. Although KP will be wondering how he's failed to make in excess of 200 on this pitch.

A bowler of express pace would still enjoy some encouragement on the track, there is good carry and decent pace in the track, but movement may be difficult.

 

[Zinzan]

Cook doesn't get the century, what a surprise.

Is Cook Stephen Fleming mark II?

 

[shivfan]

WI will likely have to bat for 170 or so overs to get up toward England's score. It's almost inconceivable there won't be a few lapses before then.

England certainly have hope to win this game. But no-one should imagine it's likely to be easy.

Well, Smith has already reached his "get-out" score....

Does he have the mental application to reach three figures? we'll see....

Hinds is in next, and he certainly didn't look the part in Antigua. He's never hit a Test ton, but he's playing on his home ground on a dead pitch. If he doesn't get a ton tomorrow, he never will!

Those are the two weak links in the WI batting order, IMHO....

 

[Richard]

Is Cook Stephen Fleming mark II?

Cook of the last 20 months or so has certainly been rather akin to Fleming of the first half of his career.

Let's hope he can use the next 10-12 years or so more constructively. But TBH, I'd not be surprised to see this little rut last a bit longer still.

My real hope is that he doesn't allow the worry of constantly not making enough really big scores to get to him and cause him to tinker with stuff which will only make matters worse still. Despite everything, it's been relatively uncommon in the last 20-ish months for Cook to fail to see-off the new-ball. The absolute last thing he needs now is to start getting a run of nothing-much scores.

 

[Jigga988]

I am judging his performance today based on his technique today. Just because he scored 76*(95) doesnt mean he didnt display any technical frailities. Geraint Jones displayed temperamental frailities on his way to his first test match 100 in a very similar vein.

Personally, I dont think anyone should be dropped based solely on a performance on a pitch where you could bat with an old man's cane and still score runs.

Putting emphasis on the performance of Tim Ambrose and to a lesser extent Ravi Bopara would be pretty foolish... I mean as you say, the pitch is DEAD, and at times there was no slips in the slip corden... can't really base an argument on him going up in the estimation of the English selectors based on this performance solely... it's all fine and good hitting the ball cleanly under no pressure, but if Windies wern't playing for the decleration I reckon it could've been a different story...

 

[Woodster]

Vital England take any chances on offer tomorrow. We saw WI create opportunities, a varying degree of difficulty, and to take 20 wicks on this track, virtually all half chances must be snaffled. We quite simply must out-field WI.

 

[Zinzan]

Cook of the last 20 months or so has certainly been rather akin to Fleming of the first half of his career.

.

Mine, I supposed Cook's conversion of seven 100s & nineteen 50s is still a hell of a lot better than Fleming's nine 100s & forty-six 50s. From memory only Ranatunga of specialist batsmen had a worst conversion than Flem

 

[Jigga988]

Well, Smith has already reached his "get-out" score....

Does he have the mental application to reach three figures? we'll see....

Hinds is in next, and he certainly didn't look the part in Antigua. He's never hit a Test ton, but he's playing on his home ground on a dead pitch. If he doesn't get a ton tomorrow, he never will!

Those are the two weak links in the WI batting order, IMHO....

Yeah, agreed, re., Devon Smith, he was already trying to get himself out late in the day... had enough of playing good cricket...

If Sarwan goes early we are pretty screwed, would imagine it's a must for us to get past the follow on. After the criticism Strauss copped he will enforce the follow on and that will put us under some serious pressure...

Pitch has had no demons in it so far, and that should continue, reckon the draw is the most likely result atm, but if Sarwan goes early that will probobly change.

 

[Richard]

Vital England take any chances on offer tomorrow. We saw WI create opportunities, a varying degree of difficulty, and to take 20 wicks on this track, virtually all half chances must be snaffled. We quite simply must out-field WI.

If England field and field-place half as bad as West Indies did this game's a foregone-conclusion draw.