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Is mitchell johnson once in generation fast bowler?

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
My thoughts exactly. There is no way he was as fast as Lee and Akhtar when he was 17.
All the evidence says he was right up there but a number of back injuries put paid to that

BTW, have a look at his fc record and in particualar at how sporadically he's played - the guy debuted 6 years ago and has only played 20 matches in his career.

Shows how many injuries he's had and how talented he is to be doing so well with basically no experience
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
So well?

What, having one good game against a side who'd just been hammered for 900?

If you really think he's doing "so well" you need a reality-check.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
So well?

What, having one good game against a side who'd just been hammered for 900?

If you really think he's doing "so well" you need a reality-check.
So an average of 22 and strike-rate of 28 is not good enough 4 you?

Most teams would kill 4 someone like that
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I meant before this year.
That's why you have to consider how little cricket he's played - he is basically learning how to bowl by playing international cricket and I think that the selectors should be delighted with his progress.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I learnt to bowl, and I've never been anywhere near international cricket.

I'd guess Johnson learnt to bowl quite some time ago.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I learnt to bowl, and I've never been anywhere near international cricket.

I'd guess Johnson learnt to bowl quite some time ago.
Richard, even u can admit that there's a big difference between knowing how to get the ball from one end of the pitch to the other and getting it there in a threatening and economical fashion
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Richard, even u can admit that there's a big difference between knowing how to get the ball from one end of the pitch to the other and getting it there in a threatening and economical fashion
There is.

Neither are remotely difficult to understand, though.

And there's only one thing that'll help you do it.

Practice.

The best place to practice is not in the middle.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
There is.

Neither are remotely difficult to understand, though.

And there's only one thing that'll help you do it.

Practice.

The best place to practice is not in the middle.
Players learn the basics through practice, obviously, and can hone techniques and skills through practice, but there are many things that can only be learned through experience, which is why many (read: most) players don't have immediate success at international level, and more or less all players improve as they mature. Just because you don't learn how to bowl an outswinger in an international match doesn't mean the experience of playing high level competitive cricket isn't a crucial tool in the development of any player.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Tell me one thing...

What, exactly, do you learn by playing in an international game?

The different feel of the clothing compared to that of your domestic team?

The reason most don't have immidiate success at the international level comes down to 2 main things:

1, plenty and plenty of players are picked prematurely, when they haven't done enough to merit their selection. They then improve, and eventually make the grade.

2, if someone is good enough when first picked, nerves certainly are not unusual, and can ruin your debut, then ruin your next few games because you always feel you're running into the wind \ pushing a wave uphill \ etc.
 
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adharcric

International Coach
You definitely need to adapt to a different class of cricketers when you make the step up from domestic cricket to international cricket. For example, Joginder Sharma can seek extra pace along with his swing and trouble Delhi or Gujarat batsmen. Once he has to face Australian batsmen, his "extra pace" will be rubbish and he needs to learn new tricks and focus on accuracy. In addition, he might have to bowl in a greater variety of conditions.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Will he seriously not know that before facing them?

I, for example, will.

Hell, his pace is useless against West Indian batsmen. And much else, too.
 

adharcric

International Coach
He may know it, but he won't internalize it in his bowling. You generally need to get a taste of international cricket to realize what it takes.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Tell me one thing...

What, exactly, do you learn by playing in an international game?

The different feel of the clothing compared to that of your domestic team?

The reason most don't have immidiate success at the international level comes down to 2 main things:

1, plenty and plenty of players are picked prematurely, when they haven't done enough to merit their selection. They then improve, and eventually make the grade.

2, if someone is good enough when first picked, nerves certainly are not unusual, and can ruin your debut, then ruin your next few games because you always feel you're running into the wind \ pushing a wave uphill \ etc.
If you seriously don't realise why extensive experience at the highest level is a valuable tool in improving a cricketer's performance, I really don't know how I could explain it. It's simply a blatantly obvious element of cricket which anyone who watches the game should be aware of. In fact, it's true of every sport, not just cricket. An experienced player will have been through most sorts of situations an international cricketer will face many times before. They will know how to cope with pressure, what sort of tactics are needed in changing situations, they will have faced particular players or those similar to them before and know how to approach them, and they will have the confidence of having been through it all before. Also, international experience will sometimes expose a weakness in a player's game that wasn't necessarily evident beforehand, which can then be improved, on or off the field.

I couldn't even begin to list the number of players who have improved out of sight with experience at international level, and I'm sure if I tried you'd just ignore it anyway, so I'll leave it there.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
An experienced player will have been through most sorts of situations an international cricketer will face many times before. They will know how to cope with pressure, what sort of tactics are needed in changing situations, they will have faced particular players or those similar to them before and know how to approach them, and they will have the confidence of having been through it all before.
You don't need to have played international cricket to understand the tactics, just "be around" the thing and see people using said tactics. That's why watching the stuff before trying to play it is generally a good idea.

As for coping with the pressure... if you can't do it, you're never gonna get anywhere... it's always there.
I couldn't even begin to list the number of players who have improved out of sight with experience at international level, and I'm sure if I tried you'd just ignore it anyway, so I'll leave it there.
Oh, I've seen players who've improved after their first international fling (have seen every single player with an international career of any length improve constantly throughout it, at that), make no mistake about that. Playing international cricket cannot simply be blindly given credit for those improvements, though.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
He may know it, but he won't internalize it in his bowling. You generally need to get a taste of international cricket to realize what it takes.
Why?

If I can work-out that something's required by watching a bowler (and many, many others, too), why can't the bowler work such a thing out before getting their international crack?
 

adharcric

International Coach
Do you seriously believe that you can learn the essentials of international cricket as a cricketer by merely watching it?
 

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