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  1. B

    The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

    That's a unique take on Gilchrist's keeping. I'm not going out of my way to defend these guys individually in specialist batting terms. I'm saying there are 3 of them. They collectively average about 105. Even if they collectively have a pretty poor game with the bat, there's a decent chance...
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    The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

    We know Gilchrist was good. Do you think Gilchrist was as good as the best keepers ever? If you do, cool. Your position is consistent at least. I've never heard anyone claim this though. OFC Viv was a better bat than Miller. He wasn't a better bat than the 3 ARs put together though. In a...
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    The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

    So did Healy. Who did it better by all accounts. If you want to argue that Gilchrist was as good, go ahead. Otherwise you are trading a bit of primary role for a lot of secondary role, like I'm doing with Imran. I agree that it it common sense to do so for a wicket keeper, but what is the...
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    The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

    Do you think he's at least as good with the gloves as Knott, Healy etc.? And as good with the bat as Sanga, Flower etc? Actually, do you think he's at least the 7th best bat ever? Unless these are both yes, you are compromising in terms of trading one discipline for another. They are very...
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    The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

    Isn't an AR effectively definitionally a compromise though? Gilchrist wouldn't make a team of this level as either a bat or a keeper. However good he was, there is an option a touch better in each department. He's just a compromise most of us are very happy to make. If you think he's a better...
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    The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

    Position in batting order is ODI arguments bleeding into tests. For tests, outside of a couple of things (like ability to eat up balls or accelerate from certain positions), it doesn't matter much who in your batting lineup is capable of scoring runs, just that the lineup can collectively score.
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    The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

    As has been commented on, he didn't really know how to bowl reverse. And even assuming he learned, he may not be that good at it. See McGrath- as good a bowler as Hadlee, who knew how to bowl reverse, but was tiers below the best at it. Height of release point, pace, natural length, and how you...
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    The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

    The guys who score enough runs to ensure the team has a target to bowl at.
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    Peak Imran vs Peak Marshall

    Murali is comfortably the greatest bowler. You can all suck eggs. Best bowler... that's a different debate.
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    Peak Imran vs Peak Marshall

    Na. His average goes up to 18 and he's substantially behind Marshall on wickets if you look pre injury. You need to say that Imrans time out injured should not count against his peak to put him ahead. I can't do that. I agree that 27 tests is way too short. To Anantha's credit though, there...
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    Peak Imran vs Peak Marshall

    The problem for me with this peak is being out injured for nearly 2 years of it. Marshall has a ton more wickets over similar timeframes, and it's not a scheduling thing.
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    What would an ATG game really look like?

    He called out some of the best top order bats. It generally worked cos he's the new ball GOAT. He's generally going to be succeeding against any player from the top order. More so when he picks a player not so well equiped to deal with his style. It was mind games. We don't know if it had any...
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    Which players would be locks in every OTHER country’s ATG XI?

    Ya, fair point now that you mention it. Had forgotten that. Still definitely not a great slip in my book though.
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    Which players would be locks in every OTHER country’s ATG XI?

    Not exactly what I mean. I'm saying his weaknesses as a slip were somewhat masked by fielding in an easier position. Safe hands is by far the most important thing at 1st, but you do need to move sometimes, and he was poor at that.
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    Which players would be locks in every OTHER country’s ATG XI?

    Graeme smith, yes. I mean that if he had had a more difficult position, like second slip, his shortcomings would have been more apparent.
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    Rahul Dravid vs Graeme Pollock

    Almost nobody in this thread disagrees with this. You and I have exactly the same opinion about the answer to to the OP...just details.
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    Rahul Dravid vs Graeme Pollock

    The good attacks of the the Sobers/Pollock test era were Eng, AUS, RSA, and WI. The others were mostly poor. Ya? I don't think Pollock ever faced a great attack. He just faced consistently good attacks. without checking scorecards, there is a good chance Sobers faced a significantly better...
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    Rahul Dravid vs Graeme Pollock

    Im talking about when he actually played tests, as per the thread OP. As I said, soft era. And I would prefer someone more proven against more challenges. But I'm not sure if it makes sense to grill him for averaging 61 against the better teams of the era if we are giving Sobers a pass for...
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    Rahul Dravid vs Graeme Pollock

    I think I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt... to some extent. He was supposedly really good against spin. And I think, for all the justified criticism that he played in a weak era, he did not face weak bowling attacks. One match against NZ. The rest was England and Aus, who had...
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    Which players would be locks in every OTHER country’s ATG XI?

    Why do you rate Smith so highly as a slip? From my (plenty) times of watching him, I got the impression he had really good hands. Almost, but not quite, elite in terms of taking sitters. He was so slow though. Couldn't get to anything that wasn't coming to him. I reckon he was definitely above...

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