Your ATG team pace bowling trio

[kyear2]

@Red & @peterhrt , opinions on this one?

 

[number11]

Why isn't Lillee on the list? He was absolutely magic.

 

[shortpitched713]

Why isn't Lillee on the list? He was absolutely magic.

Because he was the Kobe Bryant of Test fast bowlers. Really impressive, great mystique but not necessarily among the very most efficient player's in the game's history.

 

[Qlder]

Why isn't Lillee on the list? He was absolutely magic.

CW is very heavily biased against Lillee therefore making CW members not very smart judging great pace bowlers. They won't put him in a poll just so they don't show up how ignorant they actually are...

 

[number11]

CW is very heavily biased against Lillee therefore making CW members not very smart judging great pace bowlers. They won't put him in a poll just so they don't show up how ignorant they actually are...

I know that Hadlee and Immy rate him as the benchmark. That's enough for any fair judge to know how good he was. Lillee is amongst the best quicks I have ever seen. Youngsters are obsessed with stats.

 

[kyear2]

CW is very heavily biased against Lillee therefore making CW members not very smart judging great pace bowlers. They won't put him in a poll just so they don't show up how ignorant they actually are...

Do you ever do anything but complain? No matter who was added you would complain about the next.

 

[number11]

Do you ever do anything but complain? No matter who was added you would complain about the next.

Lillee is a glaring omission though mate.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Why isn't Hoggard on the list? He was absolutely magic.

Good question.

 

[Qlder]

I know that Hadlee and Immy rate him as the benchmark. That's enough for any fair judge to know how good he was. Lillee is amongst the best quicks I have ever seen. Youngsters are obsessed with stats.

Yep, stats at end of career are all that matter to them. No listening to people that actually saw them play, or any consideration for World XI games and WSC which was the toughest cricket going at the time because they're not in the stats

 

[kyear2]

I know that Hadlee and Immy rate him as the benchmark. That's enough for any fair judge to know how good he was. Lillee is amongst the best quicks I have ever seen. Youngsters are obsessed with stats.

Yeah he was among the greats, but was he going to make a top 3 here? Numbers do come into it a little and statistically he wasn't up there.

But yeah, by peer review he was top 3 and for most of us top 10.

Would he have made your top 3?

 

[kyear2]

Lillee is a glaring omission though mate.

One could argue for him and Barnes, but we're either going to win?

Knowing the voting patters of the forum, he wasn't going to. He was literally just voted 9th or 10th if I recall correctly.

Not doubting that he was one of the greats.

 

[Qlder]

Yeah he was among the greats, but was he going to make a top 3 here? Numbers do come into it a little and statistically he wasn't up there.

But yeah, by peer review he was top 3 and for most of us top 10.

Would he have made your top 3?

Further proof stats is the only criteria to select the best bowler now days. Anyone who saw Lillee bowl rated him the best above his peers of Hadlee, Marshall, Roberts, Holding , Garner, Willis, Imran. Only people looking purely at stats sheets say differently

 

[kyear2]

Yep, stats at end of career are all that matter to them. No listening to people that actually saw them play, or any consideration for World XI games and WSC which was the toughest cricket going at the time because they're not in the stats

Not that I'm questioning your points, because they are very good ones.

But those are literally the same arguments I made for Barry that you mocked.

The same Lillee said the best 3 batsmen he bowled to were Sobers and the two Richards, as do almost everyone from the era.

So it's good for one and not the other?

 

[kyear2]

Further proof stats is the only criteria to select the best bowler now days. Anyone who saw Lillee bowl rated him the best above his peers of Hadlee, Marshall, Roberts, Holding , Garner, Willis, Imran. Only people looking purely at stats sheets say differently

Yes and Viv said the best two were Lillee and Marshall.

So did Cricinfo get it right after all?

 

[Qlder]

Do you ever do anything but complain? No matter who was added you would complain about the next.

You recently claimed Marshall was a lock in an ATG team (correct) but then said McGrath would also be a lock. How's that working out for you with McGrath only getting 48% of vote as 2nd or 3rd pacer (so more people said no to McGrath then picked him)

 

[kyear2]

You recently claimed Marshall was a lock in an ATG team and that McGrath would also be. How's that working out for you with McGrath only getting 48% of vote as 2nd or 3rd pacer

.I don't get how that's a direct response to what I said, but...

McGrath is still 3rd and making the trio.

And I said and I quote "For me"

I said there are about 6 locks for an ATG XI,

Bradman, Sobers, Marshall

Tendulkar, Gilchrist, Hobbs
(Slightly behind and after the recent vote I'm not so sure about Hobbs)

Then I said for me, so are Richards and McGrath and possibly Warne.
That leaves 2

I've always said that.

 

[number11]

Further proof stats is the only criteria to select the best bowler now days. Anyone who saw Lillee bowl rated him the best above his peers of Hadlee, Marshall, Roberts, Holding , Garner, Willis, Imran. Only people looking purely at stats sheets say differently

Stats are for prats. They tell only part of the story

I would pick Lillee over any quick bar maybe Marshall and Akram in an XI. He was better than Akram but Wes gets in as the LH variation. Amongst RH quicks, he is #2 at worst.

 

[number11]

On the issue, I would still pick Thommo in my AT Aus XI. You had to watch him to see it. It was like a blonde Akhtar 25 years before Akhtar was a thing. Menacing, mean, and put the fear of God into a line-up.

Lillee
Thommo
McGrath
Warne
Miller

Would comprise my AT Aussie bowling line up. Obviously not in batting order there.

 

[kyear2]

Stats are for prats. They tell only part of the story

I would pick Lillee over any quick bar maybe Marshall and Akram in an XI. He was better than Akram but Wes gets in as the LH variation. Amongst RH quicks, he is #2 at worst.

Thanks for your perspective.

Would be interested in your overall AT XI if you don't mind.

 

[reyrey]

On the issue, I would still pick Thommo in my AT Aus XI. You had to watch him to see it. It was like a blonde Akhtar 25 years before Akhtar was a thing. Menacing, mean, and put the fear of God into a line-up.

Lillee
Thommo
McGrath
Warne
Miller

Would comprise my AT Aussie bowling line up. Obviously not in batting order there.

Bowlers like Thommo are great to have in your team if playing against average Test batsmen/teams, but in ATG vs ATG games I wouldn't see them being as big a threat. Might even end up becoming a liability with some of the great batsmen he'd be bowling to.