Why does Pakistan traditionally produce better fast bowlers than India?

[rtramdas]

Why only 131 innings of Kapil against Imran's entire career?
In fact, its Imran who changed from Bowler to Batsman after 71 tests.

Funny, all Imran fans think mixing his 2 phases as a cricketer is the right way to compare him with other bowling allrounders. Its clearly cheating.
Suppose His ability as batsman when he was an Atg bowler is 5, and in last 17 tests its 10.. They present him as a batsman of ability of 7.
Kapil 7.25 always.

because as we all know in general longevity cause a dip in a player' s stats , even more so with all rounders.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

because as we all know in general longevity cause a dip in a player' s stats , even more so with all rounders.

I agree, its not fair to penalizing a cricketer for his Extra longevity, 10 or 12yrs of career is good enough rate his greatness. Especially when you compare with a shorter career.
But here Imran and Kapil pretty equal in longevity. Its just, number of matches is less for Imran.

Its make sense when you compare Viv and Sachin, because Sachin played 5 or 6 yrs more.. So just remove those 5yrs for a fair comparison.

 

[Engle]

because as we all know in general longevity cause a dip in a player' s stats , even more so with all rounders.

So now all the record books have to be adjusted to account for this

 

[rtramdas]

I agree, its not fair to penalizing a cricketer for his Extra longevity, 10 or 12yrs of career is good enough rate his greatness. Especially when you compare with a shorter career.
But here Imran and Kapil pretty equal in longevity. Its just, number of matches is less for Imran.

Its make sense when you compare Viv and Sachin, because Sachin played 5 or 6 yrs more.. So just remove those 5yrs for a fair comparison.

King Viv is considered a better batsman to Sachin by many people (myself included) despite him scoring only 8540 runs @ 50.23 avg: , one of the prime reasons being his 70.21 str: rate when every other batsmen of his times were striking at mere. 40-45 . This, despite Sachin scoring 13500+ runs @ 59.35 avg: & around 55 str: rate during a major chunk of his career.And Viv never had to face his own bowler group, by far the best bowling unit of his era and perhaps of all time. On the other hand, Kapil from the same era with such huge str: rate of 84.4 to Imran's mere 47.52 is a far more reason for me to place Kapil convincingly over Imran.More over ,against FAB 4 of WI in WI , Imran faltered while Kapil rose to his brilliant best After all we can't have double standards.Isn't it?

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

King Viv is considered a better batsman to Sachin by many people (myself included) despite him scoring only 8540 runs @ 50.23 avg: , one of the prime reasons being his 70.21 str: rate when every other batsmen of his times were striking at mere. 40-45 . This, despite Sachin scoring 13500+ runs @ 59.35 avg: & around 55 str: rate during a major chunk of his career.And Viv never had to face his own bowler group, by far the best bowling unit of his era and perhaps of all time. On the other hand, Kapil from the same era with such huge str: rate of 84.4 to Imran's mere 47.52 is a far more reason for me to place Kapil convincingly over Imran.More over ,against FAB 4 of WI in WI , Imran faltered while Kapil rose to his brilliant best After all we can't have double standards.Isn't it?

I dont have problems with someone rating Viv ahead of Sachin, Sobers, Gavaskar or Lara. But Viv and Sachin comparison is not same as Imran and Kapil.
And I was thinking about Odis when I made that comment. I dont think Sachin or Viv clearly better than the other in either format, but the comparisons always happens with entire career stats.. Which is unfair to Sachin.
Viv had a pretty long career of 16 or 17 yrs. It was his best period..thats why he was playing in international level.
Now to compare, Take Sachin's best stretch of 16-17yrs plus give him extra points for additional years.

 

[Engle]

When you're batting # 6, 7 or 8 - what do you think your batting responsibility is ?

Flail away, OR
Shepherd the tail

 

[Bolo]

When you're batting # 6, 7 or 8 - what do you think your batting responsibility is ?

Flail away, OR
Shepherd the tail

To score runs before the tail goes out. You can do this by shepherding the tail or by flailing away.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

When you're batting # 6, 7 or 8 - what do you think your batting responsibility is ?

Flail away, OR
Shepherd the tail

https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/www....follow-on-against-england-at-lords-29507/amp/

You mean this type of situations ^^

 

[Starfighter]

https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/www....follow-on-against-england-at-lords-29507/amp/

You mean this type of situations ^^

A match the India lost heavily anyway? And in a situation where it might very well have been advantageous for India to follow on and thus keep the England bowlers out in the field after an already long innings, rather than letting them come back fresh and knock India over easily in the end. Not following on might have extinguished India's chances of a draw in that match when combined with their inability to restrain the run rate of the English batsmen.

Your obsession with six hitting and high strike rates is ridiculous. It's not required most of the time and bringing up an example of where it failed to save or win a match anyway isn't brilliant.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Using the logic in this thread, If Kapil was a better batsman than Imran then Gilchrist was a much better batsman than Sachin

 

[trundler]

Sehwag was the greatest batsman of all time. Dammit don't give em' ideas!

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

A match the India lost heavily anyway? And in a situation where it might very well have been advantageous for India to follow on and thus keep the England bowlers out in the field after an already long innings, rather than letting them come back fresh and knock India over easily in the end. Not following on might have extinguished India's chances of a draw in that match when combined with their inability to restrain the run rate of the English batsmen.

Your obsession with six hitting and high strike rates is ridiculous. It's not required most of the time and bringing up an example of where it failed to save or win a match anyway isn't brilliant.

Nice Try.
Need of the moment was 24 runs

 

[Starfighter]

Nice Try.
Need of the moment was 24 runs

You clearly didn't read or consider any of what I said.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Using the logic in this thread, If Kapil was a better batsman than Imran then Gilchrist was a much better batsman than Sachin

How?
Lets forget.. Era differences, Longevity, century ratio, 50/innings, team strength.. Etc etc etc..
Still
Sachin scores 8 runs more per innings.

Gilly has Strike Rate, Imran Avg
Suddenly they are better than Sachin and Kapil. Which is far from reality.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

You clearly didn't read or consider any of what I said.

In such situations, 99% of players will try to avoid follow on, With Kapil its possible, with Imran.. Chances are slim

 

[Starfighter]

In such situations, 99% of players will try to avoid follow on, With Kapil its possible, with Imran.. Chances are slim

You clearly didn't read or consider any of what I said.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Sehwag was the greatest batsman of all time. Dammit don't give em' ideas!

Exactly, if we are judging batsmen for their high strike rate, or inflated avg without considering other factors, Sehwag > Sachin, Imran > Kapil.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

You clearly didn't read or consider any of what I said.

Scoring more runs, Intimidating opposition bowlers..

Never a bad thing

 

[trundler]

Exactly, if we are judging batsmen for their high strike rate, or inflated avg without considering other factors, Sehwag > Sachin, Imran > Kapil.

Haha are you even on your own side?

 

[Starfighter]

I shall take the pleasure of quoting myself:

​Once in a while you see something so stupid it staggers the imagination...