Who is Australia's Greatest Captain?

[subshakerz]

As title suggests. Hard decision to make but interested to hear opinions, and perhaps a top three selection.

In my time of watching, Mark Taylor was the finest captain of that side. But Chappell and Benaud have strong claims, neither of them lost a series I believe. Border has two halves to his captaincy so not easy to judge him.

 

[Coronis]

Unsure of the order but my top 3 would probably be Benaud, Border and Waugh, with Bradman and Ponting probably rounding out the top 5.

 

[subshakerz]

Unsure of the order but my top 3 would probably be Benaud, Border and Waugh, with Bradman and Ponting probably rounding out the top 5.

No Taylor or Chappell in the top five?

 

[BoyBrumby]

Probably too small a sample size (ironically given his noted girth) but Warwick Armstrong won 8/10 tests and drew the other two.

Also whitewashed England when such a thing had rarity value.

Woodfull impresses me too; maintained a stoic dignity throughout the Bodyline tour and bookended his captaincy by regaining the Ashes in England twice, which might be a unique achievement.

 

[wpdavid]

Probably too small a sample size (ironically given his noted girth) but Warwick Armstrong won 8/10 tests and drew the other two.

Also whitewashed England when such a thing had rarity value.

Woodfull impresses me too; maintained a stoic dignity throughout the Bodyline tour and bookended his captaincy by regaining the Ashes in England twice, which might be a unique achievement.

Good calls, and I'm sure they were both fine captains. In terms of ranking them, Armstrong did have the benefit leading a strong Australian aside against opponents who had been severely weakened by the ravages of WWI, and Woodfull benefited from Bradman scoring about a zillion runs in both series.

As for the others, Waugh suffers from 'Thora Hird Syndrome', meaning that the side he led could have been captained by TH and they'd have still been nigh on invincible. And given what followed, the fact that he never led them to a whitewash over us in our absolute dog days must be held against him. Loved Ponting and still do, due to his poor calls across the 2005 and 2009 series. But my affection for the man doesn't make him a great captain. I can't believe Clarke is even in the list; from memory three Ashes defeats, and behaved like a complete arsehole the one time he was lucky enough to have Johnson turn up. I don't really know how to rank Bradman's captaincy. He was probably perfectly fine, but everything was weighted so massively in his favour that it's hard to tell.

3rd place is between Chappell and Border. Both took over weak teams and took them to near the top of the pile. Maybe Chappell did actually take them to the top of the rankings after they won in England in 1975. I couldn't honestly say. Someone like JBMAC would be fascinating on the subject.

2nd place goes to Taylor, who definitely took them to the top of the rankings, and did so by winning in the Caribbean when that still counted for a lot.

1st place to Benaud. To take that side to number 1 and remain unbeaten during his time in charge was quite something, especially when, man-for-man, the players weren't so obviously superior to England or WI as other guys were able to benefit from.

 

[trundler]

Pretty much impossible to call unless you saw all of them and if you did you'd just go with Bradman out of reverence.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

The one who reversed the order

 

[honestbharani]

3rd place is between Chappell and Border. Both took over weak teams and took them to near the top of the pile. Maybe Chappell did actually take them to the top of the rankings after they won in England in 1975. I couldn't honestly say. Someone like JBMAC would be fascinating on the subject.

2nd place goes to Taylor, who definitely took them to the top of the rankings, and did so by winning in the Caribbean when that still counted for a lot.

1st place to Benaud. To take that side to number 1 and remain unbeaten during his time in charge was quite something, especially when, man-for-man, the players weren't so obviously superior to England or WI as guys were able to benefit from.

Pretty much this for me.

 

[subshakerz]

Good calls, and I'm sure they were both fine captains. In terms of ranking them, Armstrong did have the benefit leading a strong Australian aside against opponents who had been severely weakened by the ravages of WWI, and Woodfull benefited from Bradman scoring about a zillion runs in both series.

As for the others, Waugh suffers from 'Thora Hird Syndrome', meaning that the side he led could have been captained by TH and they'd have still been nigh on invincible. And given what followed, the fact that he never led them to a whitewash over us in our absolute dog days must be held against him. Loved Ponting and still do, due to his poor calls across the 2005 and 2009 series. But my affection for the man doesn't make him a great captain. I can't believe Clarke is even in the list; from memory three Ashes defeats, and behaved like a complete arsehole the one time he was lucky enough to have Johnson turn up. I don't really know how to rank Bradman's captaincy. He was probably perfectly fine, but everything was weighted so massively in his favour that it's hard to tell.

3rd place is between Chappell and Border. Both took over weak teams and took them to near the top of the pile. Maybe Chappell did actually take them to the top of the rankings after they won in England in 1975. I couldn't honestly say. Someone like JBMAC would be fascinating on the subject.

2nd place goes to Taylor, who definitely took them to the top of the rankings, and did so by winning in the Caribbean when that still counted for a lot.

1st place to Benaud. To take that side to number 1 and remain unbeaten during his time in charge was quite something, especially when, man-for-man, the players weren't so obviously superior to England or WI as other guys were able to benefit from.

Good list.

I find it hard to separate Chappell, Benaud and Taylor.

Chappell to me led a cricketing revolution with his aggressive style of captaincy that gave way to the modern era of the game to a certain extent.

Taylor I give credit for because though he had a great team, he managed to win series in WI, SA and Pakistan against top quality sides to become the definitive no.1. Steve Waugh by comparison faced slightly weaker opposition as captain.

Benaud I need to research more.

 

[Line and Length]

I'm in total agreement when it comes to ranking Benaud as Australia' greatest captain.

Both Border and Chappell lifted mediocre teams and I rank the former higher. Chappell had the benefit of Lillee and Thompson.

I'd give honourable mentions to Armstrong and Woodfull purely on what I have read on their record.

Taylor was a solid captain.

I never regarded Bradman as a great tactical captain. He had a powerful side and his approach seemed to be 'put our foot on their throat and keep it there'. It was an attitude in a Post WWII climate that didn't go down well with some of his team.

 

[subshakerz]

I'm in total agreement when it comes to ranking Benaud as Australia' greatest captain.

Both Border and Chappell lifted mediocre teams and I rank the former higher. Chappell had the benefit of Lillee and Thompson.

I'd give honourable mentions to Armstrong and Woodfull purely on what I have read on their record.

Taylor was a solid captain.

I never regarded Bradman as a great tactical captain. He had a powerful side and his approach seemed to be 'put our foot on their throat and keep it there'. It was an attitude in a Post WWII climate that didn't go down well with some of his team.

Tactically to me Taylor is perhaps the greatest captain ever. It was uncanny how many of his little plans and fielding placements seemed to work. And even gutsy calls like choosing to play with three proper bowlers plus Bevan in SA, and winning.

 

[Zinzan]

Between Benaud and Taylor from that lot, and at a push I'd say Taylor marginally

 

[mr_mister]

Ill vote Benaud. Sharp as a knife.

 

[Shady Slim]

i'm sure that burgey has absolutely nothing to say on this matter

said taylor though only on the basis of secondhand knowledge

 

[Red]

Benaud- was innovative and well before his time

Taylor- tactical genius

Woodfull- so dignified, refused to sully the game by using the tactics Eng used against us. Remarkably well respected by all

Chappell- union leader and gang boss.

 

[Red]

Woodfull
Simpson
Bradman
Chappell
Ponting
Border
Gilchrist
Noble
Benaud
Lindwall
Cummins

 

[Starfighter]

Lotta part-time bowlers who turn the ball from leg in that XI. Also Chappelli would be pissed off at not getting to bat 3.

 

[subshakerz]

Woodfull
Simpson
Bradman
Chappell
Ponting
Border
Gilchrist
Noble
Benaud
Lindwall
Cummins

I forgot about Gilchrist! Captained Australia to victory in India...

 

[subshakerz]

Interesting to hear comments from Mike Brearely about Ian Chappell and his toughness. I think that mindset shift changed cricket from the gentleman type of game.

Another interesting clip from Chappell on Mark Taylor, especially that bit about how Taylor curbed Bob Simpson's influence. In general, Chappell didn't rate Border or Waugh that highly, putting them as too conservative.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

It is a tough one. Am surprised Chappelli doesn't have any votes.