What will become of Dwayne Bravo?

[Pup Clarke]

The man burst on to the scene in England with his enthuiasim, ability to break and partnership and make valuble runs.

Is this a player who's obvious love of the game makes up for his averageish figures and who will be in the team alone on his personality and not skill with bat and ball?

I've always thought what role Bravo plays...is he an allrounder, batsmen who bowls or a bowler who bats. To this day I still don't know what his role in the team is.

Can you see him dropped in the future even though he has the potential to be a true allrounder?

 

[Days of Grace]

Is this a player who's obvious love of the game makes up for his averageish figures and who will be in the team alone on his personality and not skill with bat and ball?

First time I have ever since ish on the end of 'average'

 

[Richard]

Bravo of course started-out as a batsman, and he barely bowled until, what, 2003? He was more bowler than batsman in 2004, and since then things have, so far as I can tell, changed often.

I've always rated his bowling and his spell in the recent tour-game seems to have been his best in yoooonks. He and Sammy are very much two good, stable, thinking all-rounders who I very firmly believe West Indies can build a team (however good) around.

 

[Goughy]

Needs to concentrate on the batting to be a legit top 6 threat. The bowling would come as a bonus.

If WI are factoring in his bowling as part of their core attack then there are problems.

His bowling can be a useful tool for a captain, but not a main weapon and he needs to secure a place on batting alone.

 

[andruid]

He should work on switching his current bating and bowling averages...

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Bravo's problem with the ball seems to be that he thinks too much. He gets bored with line and length and tries things with every ball sometimes. He's at his best when he's patient and content to bowl 7 sameish overs with 4-5 innovative deliveries in there. He's never going to be a strike bowler, though he used to do more with the ball a couple of years ago.

Regarding his batting, I think he's been a lot better over the past year or so. In ODI cricket he's certainly improved as he's received more opportunities to bat earlier in the innings. His Test match batting is certainly full of potential, and I'm not too unhappy with his level of performance to this point. He's a young 24 and averaging in the mid-30s with a couple of quality centuries to his name. He certainly has more application than a lot of other young West Indian batsmen, but still needs to learn to score hundreds and push on with his starts. Not at all worried about him at this stage. Has all the signs of pushing on and looks to be taking whatever responsibility he's given rather well.

 

[Athlai]

He does have a better record than most of the West Indians doesn't he? Barring Sarwan and Chanderpaul anyway.

He's a total gun IMO, yet I see him as more of a batsman who can bowl than your genuine all-rounder. Bit like Oram or Piggo yet possibly a little better with the ball.

 

[Josh]

Bit of an Ian Harvey in my opinion. Definitely has scores of talent but just what I've seen of him so far means that we're never gonna see him reach his full potential. Of course he has plenty of time to rectify that, I think he's still quite a young man (I could be wrong), but application and dedication is the thing.

 

[NUFAN]

What will become of Dwayne Bravo?

He'll finish up after a great career with Windies fans chanting out his name..

Bravo..

 

[tooextracool]

I think Bravo's worth in the team is for his entire package. His fielding is arguably the best in the entire side, his batting has potential while his bowling is and always has been decent but not good enough to cut it at test match level. He doesnt have any height or pace to work with, his only real assets are his ability to bowl reverse and therefore he is only going to be someone who can be called in to provide support for the rest of their pace attack. On the whole hes a good player who seems to be willing to give more than 100% in every game but he'd be better off working on his batting than paying too much attention on improving his bowling at the test match level. At the ODI level his bowling might yet prove useful with his ability to bowl a decent slower ball and mix up his bowling may serve him well in the future.

 

[gettingbetter]

I can't really see his bowling average improving all that much, I'd like to see it come below 35 though. As for his batting, he clearly has potential and once he can start converting his 50s into 100s, I think he can become an important cog in the ressurection of the Windies (hopefully).

We all know that Chanders is pulling his weight 10 times over, its good to see that some of the other Windies are doing the same.

 

[Prince EWS]

he needs to secure a place on batting alone.

Well, he is doing that. I know it's a bit simplistic, but if you have a look at the Windies test batting averages:

Chanderpaul 47.00
Sarwan 38.76
Gayle 38.51
Bravo 33.71
Samuels 28.97
Ganga 26.27
DS Smith 24.55
Morton 24.35
Ramdin 23.50
Sammy 21.33

Now, 33.71 isn't really test standard as a specialist batsman, but it justifies his selection on that alone within the context of the West Indies team, easily. He's also averaging over 40 in 2007 (admittedly in only 4 tests) so he's definitely improving as a batsman.

His bowling, however, seems to have declined significantly. The stats back this up but I think we all realised he was quite a bit lucky with his bowling returns early in his career anyway. What is most alarming is the fact that he doesn't move the ball anywhere near the amount he used to. He's probably a more accurate bowler now, especially with his slower ball, but he used to be able to get the ball to swing both ways when he got the seam position right - but that doesn't seem to happen anymore as his action has deteriorated to a point where that skip and arm crossover before/during his delivery stride is really dominant. He doesn't get any rhythm out of his run-up and his wrist position is awful.

He's definitely going to have to focus on his batting and continue to make the team based on that alone - I think he should bat higher in the current team, really. His bowling could be used as a partnership breaker but unless he improves it dramatically, I wouldn't bet on it being worth much more than that.

 

[tooextracool]

but he used to be able to get the ball to swing both ways when he got the seam position right - but that doesn't seem to happen anymore as his action has deteriorated to a point where that skip and arm crossover before/during his delivery stride is really dominant. He doesn't get any rhythm out of his run-up and his wrist position is awful.

Ive missed a lot of international cricket in recent years, but when did Bravo swing the ball both ways? The times i have watched him bowl Ive never seen him swing the ball conventionally in any direction tbh.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I wouldn't say Bravo was lucky at all with his early bowling heroics. He was a lot more patient then than he became immediately after his early success. He started to fancy himself more of a bowler/bowling allrounder and tried way too hard at times. But in the early going he bowled carefully, purposefully and intelligently and took meaningful hauls against a good England and a great Australia. He is capable of taking wickets and a few of them too, but is best served looking for them in the way he has in this Test thus far - bowling steadily and setting up the batsman. He will never be able to bowl wicket-taking balls without doing the stock groundwork.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

He'll probably drift in and out of the team for a few years and then suddenly find himself 35 years old and looking back on a wasted career.

 

[tooextracool]

Well, he is doing that. I know it's a bit simplistic, but if you have a look at the Windies test batting averages:

Chanderpaul 47.00
Sarwan 38.76
Gayle 38.51
Bravo 33.71
Samuels 28.97
Ganga 26.27
DS Smith 24.55
Morton 24.35
Ramdin 23.50
Sammy 21.33

Bravo has done enough on away tours of both England and Australia, 2 of the more difficult countries to tour, to justify selection selection as a batter IMO. Ironically, hes struggled to repeat those performances on the flatter tracks at home.

 

[Prince EWS]

Ive missed a lot of international cricket in recent years, but when did Bravo swing the ball both ways? The times i have watched him bowl Ive never seen him swing the ball conventionally in any direction tbh.

He's never done it consistently within a series or even a match really, but I have seen him move the ball in the air a number of times in both directions. Admittedly it was almost always reverse swing, so I should have stated that in my post, but it was swing all the same. He doesn't seem to get any movement at all these days though, apart from occassionally off the seam on the off chance he gets it in the right spot.

 

[Prince EWS]

I wouldn't say Bravo was lucky at all with his early bowling heroics. He was a lot more patient then than he became immediately after his early success. He started to fancy himself more of a bowler/bowling allrounder and tried way too hard at times. But in the early going he bowled carefully, purposefully and intelligently and took meaningful hauls against a good England and a great Australia. He is capable of taking wickets and a few of them too, but is best served looking for them in the way he has in this Test thus far - bowling steadily and setting up the batsman. He will never be able to bowl wicket-taking balls without doing the stock groundwork.

Personally I think a lot of his early hauls against England came as a result of everyone else bowling poorly than anything else. Much like Sammy's debut haul as was noted in the other thread, he bowled well, but he probably wasn't completely deserved of the hauls he got, IMO. He got a lot of wickets with wide full balls which were, in fairness, well planned, but could probably be put more down to batsmen error and overconfidence than superb bowling.

He definitely bowled well in Australia though - I thought he deserved his returns there.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Personally I think a lot of his early hauls against England came as a result of everyone else bowling poorly than anything else. Much like Sammy's debut haul as was noted in the other thread, he bowled well, but he probably wasn't completely deserved of the hauls he got, IMO. He got a lot of wickets with wide full balls which were, in fairness, well planned, but could probably be put more down to batsmen error and overconfidence than superb bowling.

He definitely bowled well in Australia though - I thought he deserved his returns there.

Collymore bowled well in the innings that Bravo took 6-for, IIRC. And that's the only haul I'm referring to, and he had 3 bowled dismissals, an lbw, a caught-and-bowled, and IIRC Thorpe was caught at slip. He bowled very well and deserved his haul. I don't think he was flattered there for it. 26 tight overs, 6 for 55.

Against Australia he was quite sharp too, at one point almost single-handedly limiting them to a follow-on. He took 6 of the first 8 wickets to fall, including Ponting, Hayden, Symonds and Gilchrist. It was a fine performance. Unfortunately Australia got away by Hussey's ton, but not for lack of effort or performance by Bravo.

It's one thing to say a bowler benefits from being in a poor attack, but you generally don't take cheap 6-wicket hauls in those situations unless you bowl damn well anyway. If anything it's harder to take such hauls without support.

 

[Prince EWS]

Collymore bowled well in the innings that Bravo took 6-for, IIRC. And that's the only haul I'm referring to, and he had 3 bowled dismissals, an lbw, a caught-and-bowled, and IIRC Thorpe was caught at slip. He bowled very well and deserved his haul. I don't think he was flattered there for it. 26 tight overs, 6 for 55.

Against Australia he was quite sharp too, at one point almost single-handedly limiting them to a follow-on. He took 6 of the first 8 wickets to fall, including Ponting, Hayden, Symonds and Gilchrist. It was a fine performance. Unfortunately Australia got away by Hussey's ton, but not for lack of effort or performance by Bravo.

It's one thing to say a bowler benefits from being in a poor attack, but you generally don't take cheap 6-wicket hauls in those situations unless you bowl damn well anyway. If anything it's harder to take such hauls without support.

Fair enough - I may just be looking back at his performances in England with... what's the opposite of rose-tinted glasses?

I certainly thought he bowled well in Australia and deserved his returns there, and the fact that I can only actually remember three of his dismissals specifically on that tour of England probably says a lot about my memory of that series. I do remember thinking he had been a bit lucky but it might have just been a reaction to the one dismissal that won't leave my mind (Strauss out, caught by the keeper/slips chasing really wide one bowled from over the wicket) so I'll take your word for it.

If anything though, it supports my statement that his bowling has declined.