Viv Richards Vs Warne

[subshakerz]

Yeah, I have Warne tied for 5th with Murali, I have Viv 4th or 5th, so about exactly the same.

A bit more difficult to be the 5th best batter than 5th best bowler anyways.

 

[kyear2]

A bit more difficult to be the 5th best batter than 5th best bowler anyways.

Agree with that as well.

 

[h_hurricane]

Sehwag and Gilchrist has a SR of 82 mind you. This is in tests.

Sehwag batted at a SR of 112 in 2009 NZ test series. His lowest SR in any innings in that series was 94.11. All other innings he struck above 100.

And he had a poor series.

 

[Migara]

Sehwag batted at a SR of 112 in 2009 NZ test series. His lowest SR in any innings in that series was 94.11. All other innings he struck above 100.

And he had a poor series.

He averages 49 in tests, so your point is moot. It further shows when he was going he was much more destructive than Richards.

 

[subshakerz]

He averages 49 in tests, so your point is moot. It further shows when he was going he was much more destructive than Richards.

On flat tracks.

 

[Coronis]

Well lemme see. If we’re talking about more destructive when they got going..

Richards
24 tons 3536 runs 70.03 SR
Highest SR: 110 off 58 (189.65) vs England
Lowest SR: 120 off 263 (45.62) vs Pakistan
1 100+ innings
7 150+ scores, 3 200+ scores

Sehwag
23 tons 3996 runs 83.49 SR
Highest SR: 293 off 254 (115.35) vs Sri Lanka
Lowest SR: 130 off 225 (57.77) vs New Zealand
6 100+ SR innings
14 150+ innings, 6 200+ innings

Gilchrist
17 tons 2246 runs 96.64 SR
Highest SR: 102 off 59 (172.88) vs England
Lowest SR: 144 off 212 (67.92) vs Bangladesh
7 100+ SR innings
2 150+ innings, 1 200+ innings

Only 4 of Gilly’s tons were below 90 SR.

Players with multiple tons that have an average SR higher than Gilly:

Duckett 3 tons 100.68 SR
Afridi 5 tons 97.67 SR
de Grandhomme 2 tons 96.98 SR

tldr: Viv and Sehwag scored on average at their normal rate when they got going. When Gilly got going he got super destructive.

 

[Migara]

On flat tracks.

Nah, some were turning square. For example his 201*(224) against Murali and Mendis at Galle, out of a score of 350 odd is an example. That is proper demolition job.

 

[subshakerz]

Nah, some were turning square. For example his 201*(224) against Murali and Mendis at Galle, out of a score of 350 odd is an example. That is proper demolition job.

Fair enough. I meant non-swinging tracks.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Nah, some were turning square. For example his 201*(224) against Murali and Mendis at Galle, out of a score of 350 odd is an example. That is proper demolition job.

Although Richards is obv not as good as a player of spin as Sehwag, he has some great knocks like a 4th innings masterclass on a crumbling Dehli pitch when Narendra Hirwani was in ATG form. I think that chase has not been surpassed since then on Indian soil

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

The difference is Sehwag can’t replicate those knocks on SC pitches, especially in swinging conditions

 

[subshakerz]

Although Richards is obv not as good as a player of spin as Sehwag, he has some great knocks like a 4th innings masterclass on a crumbling Dehli pitch when Narendra Hirwani was in ATG form. I think that chase has not been surpassed since then on Indian soil

Did Hirwani debut then?

 

[h_hurricane]

Although Richards is obv not as good as a player of spin as Sehwag, he has some great knocks like a 4th innings masterclass on a crumbling Dehli pitch when Narendra Hirwani was in ATG form. I think that chase has not been surpassed since then on Indian soil

It was Arshad Ayub and Maninder Singh who were the spinners, but the point still stands. A sure shot loss was in cards for WI until Viv did Viv things.
Given that Hirwani ran through the side so spectacularly later in the series, this would have been the first series WI lost since 1980. They hung on to that unbeaten streak until 1995.

There was also a great hundred which he scored a few months later against Pakistan which helped WI to draw the match and eventually the series. Another instance when the streak got extended.

Viv's impact as a batsman was well beyond what an average of "just 50" suggests.

 

[subshakerz]

It was Arshad Ayub and Maninder Singh who were the spinners, but the point still stands. A sure shot loss was in cards for WI until Viv did Viv things.
Given that Hirwani ran through the side so spectacularly later in the series, this would have been the first series WI lost since 1980. They hung on to that unbeaten streak until 1995.

There was also a great hundred which he scored a few months later against Pakistan which helped WI to draw the match and eventually the series. Another instance when the streak got extended.

Viv's impact as a batsman was well beyond what an average of "just 50" suggests.

Exactly. People are writing off Viv without context.

 

[subshakerz]

It was Arshad Ayub and Maninder Singh who were the spinners, but the point still stands. A sure shot loss was in cards for WI until Viv did Viv things.

 

[Migara]

Although Richards is obv not as good as a player of spin as Sehwag, he has some great knocks like a 4th innings masterclass on a crumbling Dehli pitch when Narendra Hirwani was in ATG form. I think that chase has not been surpassed since then on Indian soil

Mendis and Murali in that series was light years ahead of Hirwani at his best. Especially Mendis. The only reason he didn't take 40 wickets in that series was that Murali was also bowling damn well.

 

[Migara]

The difference is Sehwag can’t replicate those knocks on SC pitches, especially in swinging conditions

He is not expected to.

On other hand Viv never faced a Murali or a Warne on a dust bowl either. So we don't have an idea how he has gone against top quality spin.

 

[Migara]

Viv's impact as a batsman was well beyond what an average of "just 50" suggests.

Same could be said about Shewag and Gilchrist too. It is nor just "49".

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

He is not expected to.

On other hand Viv never faced a Murali or a Warne on a dust bowl either. So we don't have an idea how he has gone against top quality spin.

Sehwag couldn’t buy a run in England or Nz or SA, and he was not facing great bowler in the previous two. Viv didn’t face Murali/Warne but dominated all the best spinners of his time, some of which were brilliant bowlers like Chandrasekhar, Underwood

 

[subshakerz]

Same could be said about Shewag and Gilchrist too. It is nor just "49".

You're right. We have to deduct points for batting majority in the 2000s

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Mendis and Murali in that series was light years ahead of Hirwani at his best. Especially Mendis. The only reason he didn't take 40 wickets in that series was that Murali was also bowling damn well.

I am in no way comparing both innings. But I am saying Richards was a good player of spin, whilst being one of the best ever players of pace. Sehwag was one of the best ever players of spin. But he was downright poor against pace in non flat pitches. Viv had no such weakness