Vikram Solanki and Owais Shah

[slippy888]

What did these two never progress at international level

 

[mr_mister]

Oasis Shah had some level of success

 

[Howe_zat]

Girls who want boys
Who like boys to be girls
Who do boys like they're girls
Who do girls like they're boys
Owais Shah’d be someone you really love

 

[TheJediBrah]

Why would you group those 2 guys together

 

[Prince EWS]

@sledger

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Where's Ravi Bopara?

@slippy888

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

What did these two never progress at international level

They never progressed their two-man luge team which promised so much for England's medal prospects at the recent Winter Olympics.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Girls who want boys
Who like boys to be girls
Who do boys like they're girls
Who do girls like they're boys
Owais Shah’d be someone you really love

Vikram Vikram Solanki
Why won'tcha reach out and grab me
Vikram Solanki
Vikram Solanki

You make me hot, you make me sigh
You make me laugh, you make me cry
Keep me burning for your love
With the touch of your batting glove

etc.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Vikram Vikram Solanki
Why won'tcha reach out and grab me
Vikram Solanki
Vikram Solanki

You make me hot, you make me sigh
You make me laugh, you make me cry
Keep me burning for your love
With the touch of your batting glove

etc.

Is batting glove a euphemism for Jimmy Hat?

 

[Chubb]

Shah was a decent bat but he was too intense, subject to a lot of scrutiny as the next big thing growing up, and had some technical issues. He's like Ramprakash, only slightly better in internationals.

IIRC he gripped the bat so tightly because he was so intense, he used to cramp up if he batted for a long time.

Solanki was one of those guys who find county cricket too easy but couldn't step up. Good looking bat but not quite good enough.

 

[sledger]

Solanki was batted down the order despite being an opener, and had to bat with the dross after inevitable batting collapses all the time. He also often played as the "super sub" all the time during that period where that idiotic idea was trialed. These things made his record look shite. He was a fine player.

 

[jayjay]

Shah and Solanki played at a time when there were some very poor selection decisions, and guys weren't getting the opportunities they deserved..leading to promising players fading away due to the cut and drop way of doing things. Not sure if race had a part to play but it's definitely a concern as both Atherton and Nasser have spoken about that period. Athers even wrote a piece some years back about England in the late 90s onward and problems with selection and race.

Shah's place in the test side was odd, he batted at 3 on debut in a great win for Eng v India and then missed back to back test series (I can't remember if that was injury or just plain dropped). He then played about 4 or 5 more tests in about 3 years.

That same period, roughly 05-09 is some of England's best and they really stuck with promising players through their worst patches (Bell and JImmy come to mind).

 

[honestbharani]

Isn't Solanki running an IPL franchise now?

 

[andruid]

Where's Ravi Bopara?

@slippy888

and Dmitri Mascarenhas

 

[AndrewB]

Shah and Solanki played at a time when there were some very poor selection decisions, and guys weren't getting the opportunities they deserved..leading to promising players fading away due to the cut and drop way of doing things.

Shah's place in the test side was odd, he batted at 3 on debut in a great win for Eng v India and then missed back to back test series (I can't remember if that was injury or just plain dropped). He then played about 4 or 5 more tests in about 3 years.

That same period, roughly 05-09 is some of England's best and they really stuck with promising players through their worst patches (Bell and JImmy come to mind).

I'm not sure what the very poor selection decisions were*: in the second half of the 00s, the England batting line-up was usually 5 or 6 from Strauss, Trescothick, Cook, Vaughan, Bell, Pietersen and Collingwood, all of whom had pretty successful careers (and would walk into the team now). Key, Bopara and Shah each played a few games, weren't terrible, but weren't obviously superior to any of the players listed (sure, you could have picked one of them, or Solanki, consistently for 3 years, and maybe they'd have done well - but then one or more of the players listed would have been the one missing out).

*re batsmen at least - they stuck with Geraint Jones for too long, and some of the bowling picks were a bit strange, but neither of those affected Shah or Solanki.

On an unrelated note: Shah and Andrew Strauss have the second highest partnership average of any pair in Test cricket (behind Hutton and Leyland who added 382 in their only partnership at the Oval in 1938). Their partnerships were 106*, 153 and 107* - the first and last partnerships both ended due to Shah retiring with cramp. They're also the only pair to add 100+ every time in at least 3 partnerships.

 

[jayjay]

I'm not sure what the very poor selection decisions were*: in the second half of the 00s, the England batting line-up was usually 5 or 6 from Strauss, Trescothick, Cook, Vaughan, Bell, Pietersen and Collingwood, all of whom had pretty successful careers (and would walk into the team now). Key, Bopara and Shah each played a few games, weren't terrible, but weren't obviously superior to any of the players listed (sure, you could have picked one of them, or Solanki, consistently for 3 years, and maybe they'd have done well - but then one or more of the players listed would have been the one missing out).

*re batsmen at least - they stuck with Geraint Jones for too long, and some of the bowling picks were a bit strange, but neither of those affected Shah or Solanki.

On an unrelated note: Shah and Andrew Strauss have the second highest partnership average of any pair in Test cricket (behind Hutton and Leyland who added 382 in their only partnership at the Oval in 1938). Their partnerships were 106*, 153 and 107* - the first and last partnerships both ended due to Shah retiring with cramp. They're also the only pair to add 100+ every time in at least 3 partnerships.

The point being Shah was dropped for two test series following his debut and score of 88, in a test England I believe won in India. He had similar fortunes in the ODI format. It was pretty common knowledge that England were horrible at persisting with talented players and chopped and changed to much, especially when a lot of those players were not white. Athers and Hussain have both spoken about this openly.

This is not to say the other players who got to play were not good enough but one wonders at the chances could have been offered to non-white players at the same rate and with the same patience.

We can move on to someone like Bopara, back to back centuries against the WI...3 of them in fact, I think he then had a bad Ashes and also took time off for personal reasons and was treated like absolute trash thereafter, whereas say, someone like Trott who was hailed as a hero for his own personal troubles.

 

[slippy888]

Why dont the likes of Shah openly speak out against England selection policy

 

[Chubb]

The point being Shah was dropped for two test series following his debut and score of 88, in a test England I believe won in India. He had similar fortunes in the ODI format. It was pretty common knowledge that England were horrible at persisting with talented players and chopped and changed to much, especially when a lot of those players were not white. Athers and Hussain have both spoken about this openly.

This is not to say the other players who got to play were not good enough but one wonders at the chances could have been offered to non-white players at the same rate and with the same patience.

We can move on to someone like Bopara, back to back centuries against the WI...3 of them in fact, I think he then had a bad Ashes and also took time off for personal reasons and was treated like absolute trash thereafter, whereas say, someone like Trott who was hailed as a hero for his own personal troubles.

I'm not sure they were so horrible at the time Shah and Solanki were playing, though. It was certainly true in the 90s, but England selection in the 00s and early 10s was remarkably consistent. And generally in that time very few batsmen had extended runs of poor form. Hussain is one who did have a real horror trot, but he was the captain. As was Vaughan.

You also have to remember that when a side is winning, selectors will be reluctant to change it unless there's an injury, even if someone is badly out of nick.

Re Bopara, the 3 hundreds were impressive but in an extremely high scoring series and he was exposed against a better attack. Both he and Shah got many opportunities in one day cricket. I liked Bopara a lot as an Essex player and I hoped he would break through in tests but he just wasn't quite good enough at the end of the day.

I think sometimes we just need to accept these guys weren't quite good enough in a strong era for English cricket.

 

[jayjay]

I'm not sure they were so horrible at the time Shah and Solanki were playing, though. It was certainly true in the 90s, but England selection in the 00s and early 10s was remarkably consistent. And generally in that time very few batsmen had extended runs of poor form. Hussain is one who did have a real horror trot, but he was the captain. As was Vaughan.

You also have to remember that when a side is winning, selectors will be reluctant to change it unless there's an injury, even if someone is badly out of nick.

Re Bopara, the 3 hundreds were impressive but in an extremely high scoring series and he was exposed against a better attack. Both he and Shah got many opportunities in one day cricket. I liked Bopara a lot as an Essex player and I hoped he would break through in tests but he just wasn't quite good enough at the end of the day.

I think sometimes we just need to accept these guys weren't quite good enough in a strong era for English cricket.

Agreed, both Shah and Bopara had opportunities in ODI cricket but there were also large gaps in those careers and in terms of the latter, which you haven't addressed, a complete disregard by the ECB for his personal issues whereas people like Trott were championed.

In all honesty, with the recent "scandal" it's pretty clear how the ECB has behaved with players of colour.

 

[TheJediBrah]

IIRC he gripped the bat so tightly because he was so intense, he used to cramp up if he batted for a long time.

On an unrelated note: Shah and Andrew Strauss have the second highest partnership average of any pair in Test cricket (behind Hutton and Leyland who added 382 in their only partnership at the Oval in 1938). Their partnerships were 106*, 153 and 107* - the first and last partnerships both ended due to Shah retiring with cramp.

Sounds like a pretty serious issue for someone wanting to be a Test cricketer