Steve Harmison pulls out of Zimbabwe tour

[Langeveldt]

Even that I don't know would be guranteed to be a success.

Not a chance

 

[biased indian]

I did too!

that make u three marc

and u were atleast wrong on the count

 

[luckyeddie]

What, you think it will affect Mugabe that Harmison has refused to tour?
Personally I think it would simply be our best hope that everyone refused to play their side, anywhere, in all sports.
Even that I don't know would be guranteed to be a success.

Of course it's unlikely that a gesture such as Harmison's would have any effect on its own - surely you, mister stick fingers in each ear and shout 'lalalalala' just in case there's a chance of hearing what anyone else has to say about anything (that is your full title, isn't it?) can see that I have maintained a consistent stance on this, exactly the same as when Olonga and Flower made their protest - and exactly the same as when I took part in similar ventures 34-35 years ago.

It's cumulative - Harmison persuades someone else, that person influences two more, then more, then a politician, then a director of a multi-national, then another politician, this time an African leader, then etc etc etc.

Drip, drip, drip.

 

[luckyeddie]

See, this is the mad thing - you have now automatically been proven correct, on the evidence of 7 months of Test-cricket.
And the way you put it, regardless of what happens in the next 18, you'll still have been proven correct.

Another excellent performance by the big man today.

 

[Richard]

Of course it's unlikely that a gesture such as Harmison's would have any effect on its own - surely you, mister stick fingers in each ear and shout 'lalalalala' just in case there's a chance of hearing what anyone else has to say about anything (that is your full title, isn't it?) can see that I have maintained a consistent stance on this, exactly the same as when Olonga and Flower made their protest - and exactly the same as when I took part in similar ventures 34-35 years ago.

It's cumulative - Harmison persuades someone else, that person influences two more, then more, then a politician, then a director of a multi-national, then another politician, this time an African leader, then etc etc etc.

Drip, drip, drip.

Hmm, I'd like to think so but we've seen similar, far more prominent and poignant (A Flower and Olonga) gestures - that was 18 months ago now, sadly it still doesn't seem to have changed much.

 

[Richard]

Another excellent performance by the big man today.

Wow - that makes a spell of 9 good games out of 11.
Such conclusive evidence to counter such a poor start.
Especially given how poor some of the wickets and batting have been ( yes, I know, that one again!)

 

[Langeveldt]

Of course it's unlikely that a gesture such as Harmison's would have any effect on its own - surely you, mister stick fingers in each ear and shout 'lalalalala' just in case there's a chance of hearing what anyone else has to say about anything (that is your full title, isn't it?) can see that I have maintained a consistent stance on this, exactly the same as when Olonga and Flower made their protest - and exactly the same as when I took part in similar ventures 34-35 years ago.

It's cumulative - Harmison persuades someone else, that person influences two more, then more, then a politician, then a director of a multi-national, then another politician, this time an African leader, then etc etc etc.

Drip, drip, drip.

Its a nice theory but the drip drip effect stops as soon has you get to the politicians.. They seem to have their ears firmly closed..

Remember, we arent dealing with a bunch of sports mad Afrikaners like in the 1970's...

 

[luckyeddie]

Wow - that makes a spell of 9 good games out of 11.
Such conclusive evidence to counter such a poor start.
Especially given how poor some of the wickets and batting have been ( yes, I know, that one again!)

You have to look at things RELATIVELY (something which doesn't seem to exist in your little black and white world). There are some who would consider Harmison the finest bowler in the world on current form - that means that they think he's doing better than anyone else.

The '9 out of 11' games you admit he's played well in (and the inference that the wickets are sub-standard) - how the hell have those wickets assisted Harmison yet, as if by magic, the same wickets have seemed to offer less assistance to the others? Or have the other bowlers in those games suffered a temporary yet unexplainable loss of form? Or have they had bad luck? All of them?

Or is the aberration here your cokc-eyed view of reality? Think about it - and then you tell me. Which is more likely?

 

[luckyeddie]

Its a nice theory but the drip drip effect stops as soon has you get to the politicians.. They seem to have their ears firmly closed..

Remember, we arent dealing with a bunch of sports mad Afrikaners like in the 1970's...

I know - but I would NEVER blame anyone for just giving up - I don't even blame Richard for sticking to his insane theories. After all - he could be right and we could all be crackers.

It's just not very likely.

 

[Richard]

You have to look at things RELATIVELY (something which doesn't seem to exist in your little black and white world). There are some who would consider Harmison the finest bowler in the world on current form - that means that they think he's doing better than anyone else.

The '9 out of 11' games you admit he's played well in (and the inference that the wickets are sub-standard) - how the hell have those wickets assisted Harmison yet, as if by magic, the same wickets have seemed to offer less assistance to the others? Or have the other bowlers in those games suffered a temporary yet unexplainable loss of form? Or have they had bad luck? All of them?

Or is the aberration here your cokc-eyed view of reality? Think about it - and then you tell me. Which is more likely?

The like of Oram, Bradshaw, Cairns and Gough have done well enough by-and-large on these wickets.
Most people, I think, would consider most of the pitches, while not many substandard exactly, on which England have played their last 11 ODIs bowler-friendly.

 

[luckyeddie]

The like of Oram, Bradshaw, Cairns and Gough have done well enough by-and-large on these wickets.
Most people, I think, would consider most of the pitches, while not many substandard exactly, on which England have played their last 11 ODIs bowler-friendly.

Do me a lemon, Richard. Darren Gough has been incapable by and large of hitting a barn door from the inside this year - and if you seriously think that the others have come anywhere close to matching the consistency of Harmison, you are quite happily deluding yourself.

The seven months you are so keen on spouting as being the sum worth of Harmison's international career, well he's taken the best part of 90 wickets in that time in tests and ODI's.

Your argument has no redeeming features - it's one thing to suggest that he might not maintain such a high level of form over the next - how long has it got to be now, 7 years? It's quite enough to go into denial over what he has already achieved.

Repeat after me : "lalalalalalalalalala"

 

[Richard]

I never go in for repeating stuff after someone.
Darren Gough has been incapable of hitting a barn-door this year - that, then, is why he has gone for 3.17, 3.00, 4.1, 4.14, 4.11, 2.82 and 3.67-an-over in some of his last 12 games. Plus he's had some others where he's started well and been expensive later (6 overs for 11, 10 for 48).
I fail to see how a sum total of these 12 games (Harmison has played them all, too) show something with total conclusion, especially given the conditions in which many of these spells have been achieved.
I wait to see how he'll fare against (hopefully) better batting in South Africa on (hopefully) better pitches.

 

[tooextracool]

I did too!

as im sure did a lot of other people.....

 

[tooextracool]

I never go in for repeating stuff after someone.
Darren Gough has been incapable of hitting a barn-door this year - that, then, is why he has gone for 3.17, 3.00, 4.1, 4.14, 4.11, 2.82 and 3.67-an-over in some of his last 12 games. Plus he's had some others where he's started well and been expensive later (6 overs for 11, 10 for 48).
I fail to see how a sum total of these 12 games (Harmison has played them all, too) show something with total conclusion, especially given the conditions in which many of these spells have been achieved.
I wait to see how he'll fare against (hopefully) better batting in South Africa on (hopefully) better pitches.

interesting those stats, the 3.00 came against zimbabwe and unless you want to start a whole new argument about how zimbabwe still deserve test and ODI status i fail to see how that counts,the 4.1 came on a wicket where india only got 204 while england failed to chase that score,the 4.14 came when india got 170,and the 2.82 came on a wicket on which WI scored 159 and where he only took 1 wicket, that off ravi rampaul.
this from someone whos only contribution is coming from the ball and has no real future in the english side isnt something to be proud about......

 

[tooextracool]

Of course it's unlikely that a gesture such as Harmison's would have any effect on its own - surely you, mister stick fingers in each ear and shout 'lalalalala' just in case there's a chance of hearing what anyone else has to say about anything (that is your full title, isn't it?) can see that I have maintained a consistent stance on this, exactly the same as when Olonga and Flower made their protest - and exactly the same as when I took part in similar ventures 34-35 years ago.

It's cumulative - Harmison persuades someone else, that person influences two more, then more, then a politician, then a director of a multi-national, then another politician, this time an African leader, then etc etc etc.

Drip, drip, drip.

and how much of an effect would this have on mugabe?in the interest of politics we shouldnt be playing a game in a certain country? that IMO makes absolutely no sense. what andy flower and olonga did was something somewhat understandable, they stood up and actually made a protest by wearing black armbands and showing their reasons for their discomfort of their own country, harmison or the england team by not going there doesnt exactly stand out to be much of a protest at all.

 

[luckyeddie]

and how much of an effect would this have on mugabe?in the interest of politics we shouldnt be playing a game in a certain country? that IMO makes absolutely no sense. what andy flower and olonga did was something somewhat understandable, they stood up and actually made a protest by wearing black armbands and showing their reasons for their discomfort of their own country, harmison or the england team by not going there doesnt exactly stand out to be much of a protest at all.

drip....drip....drip....

there's a saying 'nothing ventured, nothing gained' - not 'well, I can't change anything so I won't even try'. What you are seeming to do is ridicule the point of the protest - and if you do that, you are ridiculing ALL protest.

Let's just leave it there, eh?

 

[Andre]

drip....drip....drip....

there's a saying 'nothing ventured, nothing gained' - not 'well, I can't change anything so I won't even try'. What you are seeming to do is ridicule the point of the protest - and if you do that, you are ridiculing ALL protest.

Let's just leave it there, eh?

Agreed. These arguments for the sake of it are really bringing the enjoyment levels of the forum down IMO - it's no fun to read one vs the other taking over every single thread, simply for the sake of wanting to be one up...

 

[Craig]

I personally don't really worry about, if I feel like following it, I will, if not I won't open up the threads. Simple.

 

[tooextracool]

drip....drip....drip....

there's a saying 'nothing ventured, nothing gained' - not 'well, I can't change anything so I won't even try'. What you are seeming to do is ridicule the point of the protest - and if you do that, you are ridiculing ALL protest.

Let's just leave it there, eh?

im not ridiculing anything of harmison's so called protest, if he doesnt want to go he doesnt have to, if he believes that he would in fact be proving something by not going then he doesnt have to go then either, but what i dont understand is the number of people on here who are actually crediting him for this guesture when its really doesnt make any difference to anyone.....

 

[Langeveldt]

I personally don't really worry about, if I feel like following it, I will, if not I won't open up the threads. Simple.

But its not great for the forums tbh..