Should Fleming open in Tests for NZ

[Craig]

I was considering this because I know Stephen Fleming opens for New Zealand in ODIs and for Yorkshire and he has opened in Tests on some occasions (ie in the second innings of the Test where he got 274*) and I know New Zealand's main weakness is the lack of consistant openers.

Fleming knows this and is know opening in ODIs with Astle and I know he wants to lead from the front, so I just wondering whether or not he could become a more permanent opener.

Thoughts.

 

[Tim]

I could write an entire article on the 'opening' issue for NZ..infact I might just do that!

Currently Fleming & Richardson are probably NZ's best test batsmen (well over the last year & a half) so it wouldn't make sense to send them both out to the new ball.

Its well known here that I believe Tim McIntosh should be opening with Richardson
A) because they both open for Auckland & will have a good understanding
B) because McIntosh has a good FC record now & was top run scorer last season

The fact that Fleming has opened for Yorkshire in 4 dayers could mean that he's eyeing up the job in India...I don't really think its a good idea if they're missing Nathan Astle in the middle order.

 

[Craig]

I was very surprised that McIntosh wasnt taken to Sri Lankabut Richard Jones went over him which I was surprised. Rob Nicol could come in handy as well if Astle is out as he can bowl some finger spin (off spin) which he might be handy.

 

[Tim]

Richard Jones has been a consistent performer for Wellington as opener for about 3 years now..but he's getting on in age & I don't think he has the right technique to last at international level.

I presume because he actually didn't play in S.L he'll get another chance in India.

 

[Tim]

In NZ there are 2 openers i'd like to see NZ give a go:

Tim McIntosh - Auckland
Craig Cumming - Otago

Theres obviously Michael Papps, but he struggled last season so he'll have to work his way up again. Theres also Jamie How who finished off the season brilliantly with 2 big centuries, but he'll need to build on that next season if he wants to make it to the top level..I recall Dean Jones thought he had a good technique.

Craig Cumming is just great to watch, he looks very much like an Australian batsman when he is in form, using the full face of the bat & playing along the ground.

Middle Order:

We're going to be very fortunate in the next 2 years because there are a heap of middle order players on the rise

Jesse Ryder, Ross Taylor - Central Districts
Peter Fulton, Neil Broom - Canterbury
James Hill, Simon Allen - Wellington
Rob Nicol - Auckland

but none of these guys will be ready for about another season or two yet and that includes Rob Nicol who has a great FC average..I think he still needs to learn a few things.
From that lot Jesse Ryder is the king, but also watch out for Neil Broom & James Hill.

 

[Mr. P]

whats wrong with sending out your two best batsmen? indian have done it at times, very successfully.

 

[Tim]

No but the difference is that India supposedly have a much stronger middle order..look at it this way:

suppose India start the 1st test with
1. Sehwag 2. Tendulkar 3. Dravid 4. Laxman 5. Ganguly

and NZ start with

1. Richardson 2. Fleming 3. Mathew Sinclair 4. Craig McMillan 5. Nathan Astle

India have the luxury of sending out Sehwag & Tendulkar to open because they've got Dravid, Ganguly etc in the middle order whereas NZ have 2 players (Macca & Sinclair) who haven't been first team regulars of late aswell as Astle who's only just come back from injury.

It just won't work for NZ like it will for a talented batting team like India.

 

[Mr. P]

well then when they Flem and Richo out the middle over will get a boost, when they a reasurred that the selectors have confidence in them.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

well then when they Flem and Richo out the middle over will get a boost, when they a reasurred that the selectors have confidence in them.

What??

 

[Craig]

Well Richardson is an opener. What about the Marshall brothers, are they any good?

 

[anzac]

god no Fleming should not open in Tests!!!!!!!!

Fleming is NZs best batsman & I agree with the philosophy that your best comes in at No3 or 4. you don't see the likes of Lara, Tendulkar, Ponting or Kallis etc opening for their teams.

being a Test opener is an entirely different kettle of fish to that in ODI - less friendly pitch conditions etc & needs a specialist in that role unlike ODIs where you can get away with it.

 

[Mr. P]

tendulkar has opened many times for india in tests.

 

[Tim]

James & Hamish Marshall are both very talented batsmen but just when you think they're about to really score a truckload of runs, they give it away & that reflects their FC averages.

You'll see James Marshall has scored a double century for Northern Districts, but I think his average is like 27 or something..if that.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

tendulkar has opened many times for india in tests.

Au contraire. Tendulkar has opened but once in Tests. He scored 15 v New Zealand.

 

[gibbsnsmith]

err..

well, my uncle whos a kiwi, well kind of anyway, is a friend of mathew bell andi have had the pleasure of conversing with him a year or two ago..what has happened to him?

anyway...please dont get me started on indian openers, sehwag is not consistent surely this should be the top 6

1:dravid
2:das/gambhir
3:laxman
4:tendulkar
5:ganguly
6:sehwag[doing a gilchrist-esque job]
[7:agarkar]

infact the way i see there are only 3 teams with good opening partners

sa-gibbs/smith
aus-langer/hayden
eng-tres/vaughn
maybe wi-hinds/gayle? and sri-atapattu and jayasuria

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Re: err..

1:dravid
2:das/gambhir
3:laxman
4:tendulkar
5:ganguly
6:sehwag[doing a gilchrist-esque job]
[7:agarkar]

There is no way that I would have Dravid opening the batting. He's a star at no.3 because he anchors the innings. Yes, an opener can do this too, but Dravid has had all his success doing it at 3.

Besides, Sehwag averages 41 in Tests. He has 3 hundreds and 4 fifties in 14 matches. His SR is 70. I see no problem with Sehwag opening. His average doesn't reflect much wrong doing.

 

[Mr. P]

ok, but he has opened in ODI's

 

[Craig]

My friend, there is a difference between Tests and ODIs.

 

[anzac]

which reinforces my comments re Fleming...

of cource he proved most of us wrong re opening in ODIs, but I think he would be even more vulnerable to lbw in Tests re his early footwork.

As it is he has been exposed to the new ball attack often enough & has got out cheaply!!!!

 

[Tim]

If NZ had 3 top class batsmen at the top of the order then Fleming would have been batting at 4 for a long time now..he just doesn't seem to be able to cope with the new ball.