Playing Starc vs South Africa and Aus 'A' selection

[say2chintu]

1. Does anybody think Aus selectors have not selected 2nd best pace attack in 'A' squad to not give SAFers any good practice vs pace bowling in a match situation. I mean this 'A' attack is really Aus's 3rd string pace attack at the moment. Its not completely same but I found similarity in this and Indian selectors not picking any spinner in their 'A' squad vs England next week to deprive them good spin practice !! If true, its pretty damn sure they will not be playing Lyon on Gabba pitch, instead going with 4 genuine pacers with Watson! Remember none of SAF players have played any FC cricket since August !!!

2. I also think Aus should play Starc. Smith never likes left handers especially with quality of Starc. Its very well documented how SA have always struggled when Smith doesn't give them a good start. One of the reasons why India have done reasonably well vs SA in last 4-5 years is because Zaheer has taken out Smith very early. It was Smith's back to back Man of the Series performances in 2008-09 season that was critical for SA winning in England and Australia for 1st time in their history. Even this year in Eng, Smith gave SA advantage every time comparing to how badly Eng openers were. I remember Arthur also suggesting this during 2011 SA-Aus series (when he was still coach of WA) to target Smith as when he does well, SA generally wins. If that is to be any hint, I see Starc playing in atleast 2 of 3 test matches.

3. Does anybody see a young batsman making debut during this whole Aussie summer?Any young batsman catching the eye in shield cricket this year? Warner,Cowan,Watson,Ponting, Clarke, Hussey, Wade/Haddin, Pattinson, Siddle, Hilfenhaus, Starc/Lyon/Cummins looks pretty settled for the whole summer unless one of the batsman has real poor season ala Shaun Marsh last year.

 

[NUFAN]

I kind of wish Cricket Australia had a new name for these matches such as Board XI's or something else, because naturally when we here Australia A we assume its the best of the rest.

Realistically though the 11 players are good first class players and the host country doesn't have to give the touring party the hardest imaginable hit-out. Personally I think the plan is for the 'A' team to keep SA in the field for as long as possible, given the lineup bats down to 11.

 

[Noble One]

A full round of Sheffield Shield games is being played at the same time. I would argue the intensity of a live Shield game is a better show of Starc's ability than a joke three day match against a South Africa side without match practice.

 

[Noble One]

I kind of wish Cricket Australia had a new name for these matches such as Board XI's or something else, because naturally when we here Australia A we assume its the best of the rest.

Realistically though the 11 players are good first class players and the host country doesn't have to give the touring party the hardest imaginable hit-out. Personally I think the plan is for the 'A' team to keep SA in the field for as long as possible, given the lineup bats down to 11.

I'm not sure I agree with your point regarding keeping South Africa in the field. These shorter games tend to involve agreements to declare at the end of the days play. Both sides have different reasons to want to keep the game rolling and give every player a chance to shine.

 

[Spikey]

Maybe we've stacked the tail due to fears the top 7 will be done by Tea

 

[say2chintu]

A full round of Sheffield Shield games is being played at the same time. I would argue the intensity of a live Shield game is a better show of Starc's ability than a joke three day match against a South Africa side without match practice.

I meant Aus playing Starc in 1st test not in 'A' squad. You're right on Starc playing Shieldgame vs playing in 'A' team. Also I consider Starc to be in 1st choice attack of Aus (Siddle,Harris, Cummins, Pattinson, Starc, Hilfenhaus are 1st choice attack and back up, most would agree). 2nd best attack that could've been picked in 'A' squad would be 'Butterworth, Hazelwood, Bird, Cutting and Co' IMO.

 

[Justo]

1. I posted the below in the Domestic Cricket thread. Seems just as relevant here.

I think they've generally avoided picking NSW and QLD players due to the SS match being played simultaneously at the Gabba. Probably thinking that it's more productive to have them play there then at the road that is Allan Border Field. The players that have been selected(Smith and Henriques) are not potentially guaranteed a place in a full strength NSW side with Clarke, Watson and Haddin around and so this way are sure to get some game time.

I'd say they've chosen Hughes not necessarily on form but on the thought that he's got nothing to prove at First Class level and more to see how he fares against an international bowling attack with his rejigged batting style.

Other than that some of the selections seem a bit random. Could be that they want a long batting line up to try to wear down the South African pacers ahead of the test series.

2. Regarding Starc I'd probably have him in my team. He averages under or around 20 at the Gabba in Shield cricket and has improved significantly since this time last year(or at least last years Gabba Test anyway). That said it would ultimately come down to how he bowls in the QLD v NSW game at the Gabba(20-20 form shouldn't be enough to get into the Test team).

3. When it comes to new young batsmen I don't really see it happening. If we go on the basis that a new batsmen should have at least 2 good seasons of shield cricket to warrant selection then only really Joe Burns comes to mind. That said he'll struggle to dislodge any one of Watson, Ponting, Clarke and Hussey so I'd say only retirement or injury could see him come aboard(he'd also need to beat out Khawaja and anyone else in the frame though). The other possible/likely candidates for debut are older now(26+) so I haven't mentioned them in this although I wouldn't be against or suprised to see Cosgrove or Davis get a shot if Cowan or Warner are dropped(they'd still be competing with Hughes though).

Otherwise if the selectors were to stick with Haddin as keeper I wouldn't be surpised(or against) them using Wade as the backup batsmen.

 

[Spooony]

Against England we came from a long break and racked up over 600 runs. So August till a short space.

Its a warm up so everyone is looking to get a bat. So if he plays don't know if it will show much as you can't take figures for granted especially with top 7 trying to knock it about.

 

[LongHopCassidy]

A full round of Sheffield Shield games is being played at the same time. I would argue the intensity of a live Shield game is a better show of Starc's ability than a joke three day match against a South Africa side without match practice.

Maybe so, but that has to be weighed against Starc getting a more intimate view of each touring batsman's technique and testing strategies against them.

Having said that, I don't think he'll play, assuming Siddle, Hilf, and Patto are all fit. Lyon must play, this whole four-quicks theory gets more implausible by the day when you consider over rate regulations and Warne proving spinners can exploit bounce at Brisbane.

 

[Spooony]

Maybe so, but that has to be weighed against Starc getting a more intimate view of each touring batsman's technique and testing strategies against them.

Having said that, I don't think he'll play, assuming Siddle, Hilf, and Patto are all fit. Lyon must play, this whole four-quicks theory gets more implausible by the day when you consider over rate regulations and Warne proving spinners can exploit bounce at Brisbane.

Over rate is 90 a day. 4 Quicks can easily manage that

Australia A squad

Phillip Hughes, Rob Quiney, Liam Davis, Alex Doolan, Andrew McDonald (capt), Tim Paine (wk), Steven Smith, Moises Henriques, Glenn Maxwell, John Hastings, Nathan Coulter-Nile.

 

[marc71178]

Over rate is 90 a day. 4 Quicks can easily manage that

If that's true then how come almost every single Test day takes 6 and a half hours to complete even when spinners are used?

 

[Andre]

Maybe so, but that has to be weighed against Starc getting a more intimate view of each touring batsman's technique and testing strategies against them.

Having said that, I don't think he'll play, assuming Siddle, Hilf, and Patto are all fit. Lyon must play, this whole four-quicks theory gets more implausible by the day when you consider over rate regulations and Warne proving spinners can exploit bounce at Brisbane.

Works both ways though doesn't it. As much as it might be handy for him to have a look at the South Africans, it could work the other way with them getting an equally good look at him.

Think the 'A' side isn't too bad. Quite a few unknown quantities outside of Shield cricket. Reckon we would have learnt less had we picked our genuine 2nd XI as they are pretty well known.

 

[Noble One]

It's quite amusing we are discussing Mitchell Starc as a potential weapon.

I agree he has shown remarkable ability over the past few months in the shorter format; however he has yet to show any form of consistency in the Sheffield Shield and his most recent outing for the 'A' team in England only provided moderate returns in the longer format.

**** the Champions League has been a major annoyance in preparing for this season. I'd love for Starc to have been given the overs the likes of Siddle and Pattinson have received this season.

 

[Ruckus]

yeah, Starc has been hyped-up to the limit. I mean it's fair enough to some extent if has shown improvement in general, buts let's just wait for him to produce consistent results in relevant formats before he is dubbed one of the best bowlers in Aus.

 

[uvelocity]

well he will get a go, maybe not first test. place your bets

im on his team

 

[Spooony]

If that's true then how come almost every single Test day takes 6 and a half hours to complete even when spinners are used?

Minimum requirement is 90 overs a day. Nothing to do with time stumps is scheduled.

 

[marc71178]

No, the regulations are for 6 hours play in which 90 overs should be bowled. There is a half hour provision for time to complete the overs but if they're not completed by then the overs are lost forever. Since almost every day now lasts the 6 and a half hours and frequently the 90 are still not bowled even when spinners are used, please tell me how 4 quicks "can easily" manage to bowl the 90 overs in 6 hours?

 

[Spooony]

No, the regulations are for 6 hours play in which 90 overs should be bowled. There is a half hour provision for time to complete the overs but if they're not completed by then the overs are lost forever. Since almost every day now lasts the 6 and a half hours and frequently the 90 are still not bowled even when spinners are used, please tell me how 4 quicks "can easily" manage to bowl the 90 overs in 6 hours?

Which law with which statues of what year states that 90 overs must be completed within 6 hours?

 

[andruid]

Don't know about whether It's in 6hrs, but don't first class games world over get through up to as many as 105 overs a day as a matter of course?

 

[Spooony]

90 overs is the minimum but in fact over rates gets calculated at the end of the match by the umpires after they take into consideration the fall of wickets, innings changes, drinks, injuries, referrals to 3 rd umpire and othrr things. Then they will get a total that should have been bowed. Every wicket is 2 min. 4 wickets fall on the day you will already have 2 overs lost and so on and so on. They will only fine teams for having slow rates for 4 days on the trott. Also you will note most sides getting fined are sub continent teams.