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Player you find hardest to rate
- Thread starter subshakerz
- Start date
Patience and Accuracy+Gut
State Vice-Captain
Just give Barnes his own category really. May be with Sobers bowling as well. For Barnes he pretty much bowled what Bedser did but with Off Breaks and Leg Break bowled with pretty much similar action. Slower than Bedser, Around 115 kmph for my best guess. Just the different words used back then to now that make it seem confusing.
shortpitched713
International Captain
Sobers simply bowled multiple styles, which is not unprecedented at all.
Sydney Barnes bowled in a very old school style which was I think was aided rather generously by the conditions of uncovered pitches at the time. No one can, or even has really attempted to replicate it because it simply wouldn't work. I think he most certainly had much more control than most other uncovered pitch abusing bowlers of the time, which was honed by his very professional approach. But absolutely can't compare him to modern bowlers.
Sydney Barnes bowled in a very old school style which was I think was aided rather generously by the conditions of uncovered pitches at the time. No one can, or even has really attempted to replicate it because it simply wouldn't work. I think he most certainly had much more control than most other uncovered pitch abusing bowlers of the time, which was honed by his very professional approach. But absolutely can't compare him to modern bowlers.
Patience and Accuracy+Gut
State Vice-Captain
You aren’t gonna disagree with The Great Herbert Sutcliffe right?
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karan_fromthestands
State Captain
Having closely observed his entire career, Laxman is an excellent choice for this discussion. While there have been instances where he appeared to struggle on absolute roads, he has consistently done well in challenging conditions, especially when it mattered the most. In terms of clutch innings, he has done better than most players of his generation IMO. Maybe a few useless runs in between those great knocks would've helped with padding up his stats a bit.
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Not on roads but more against incoming deliveries from pace bowlers. He did well against Australia because their natural bowling length is the good length, while on the other hand he struggled against Pakistan and England due to their bowling lengths being much fuller and they swung it back into the batsman.
If you notice his performance against South Africa in his last few years, the reason why he did well was because Steyn never had an inswing/off cutter in his armory. He didn't bring the ball back into right handers unless it's reversing.
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I kinda thought Grimmet was considered the consensus 4th best
Slifer
International Captain
I've read that he was moderately successful vs the only decent team he played and cleaned up vs weaker RSA and WI teams.
kyear2
International Coach
Who were these innings against though? Imran, Hadlee, Botham. Not to mention what he managed against Lillee and Thompson to start off.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
It's kind of misleading since most of those last ten years he was still worldclass except the tailend.
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I'm not disputing he isn't ATG, but he's usually held up above Hutton, Hammond, Lara, Chappell etc
From what I've assesed on CW, Hobbs, Viv, Sachin and Sobers are in their own little tier just behind the Don. With Smith maybe a chance ending up there. But I feel Viv is the odd man out there
Edit - maybe Lara is also sometimes placed in that Higher tier
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
11 tons in his last 77 tests
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loterry1994
International Debutant
i don’t think his batting stats are everything to base on how good he was. He had a lot of big time innings against the best of his era. He had a style and strike rate beyond the other batsmen of his era this batting without a helmet his entire career. He was a great captain and leader and also had a swagger about him that made everyone want to watch him bat. Plus all the players from his era rated him very highly.
His influence on West Indies cricket is a large reason why they were dominant in the 70s and 80s that’s why I think he should be rated up there with the best
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Sure but until exact tailend 89 onwards he was scoring a century virtually every series and was seen as the best bat in the world until 1988.
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Mark Waugh scored a ton most series too
I just can't get around Viv being in that upper upper echelon he's placed in
Coronis
International Coach
I initially thought that especially when I was younger but I’m not sure I really have a consensus 4th anymore. He’s certainly amongst the discussion though.
Careful if you use logic or stats re: Viv not being top 5 you’ll be lynched.
shortpitched713
International Captain
Don't know how Aswin couldn't be included in this discussion. He's not as versatile as the wrist spinning trio, sure. However, home wins are wins, and don't think any spinner, with possible exception of Murali has been as unplayable as Ashwin at home.