Pick TWO opening Bowlers for the 1966-85 World test XI

[aussie tragic]

Note: Please only pick two (Poll is public and votes in excess of two will not be counted)

This is a 5-day Poll to pick the Two Opening Bowlers for the “1966-85 World Test XI” (Only 1966-85 records are considered and criteria is Ave < 30.00 and SR < 60.0)

Ian Botham: 79 tests, 343 wkts @ 26.37, SR 53.6, Econ 2.95
Colin Croft: 27 tests, 125 wkts @ 23.30, SR 49.3, Econ 2.83
Kapil Dev: 73 tests, 280 wkts @ 28.49, SR 56.4, Econ 3.02
Joel Garner: 51 tests, 220 wkts @ 21.78, SR 53.5, Econ 2.44
Richard Hadlee: 60 tests, 299 wkts @ 22.54, SR 51.2, Econ 2.64
Michael Holding: 55 tests, 233 wkts @ 23.23, SR 50.8, Econ 2.74
Imran Khan: 54 tests, 249 wkts @ 22.43, SR 53.3, Econ 2.52
Geoff Lawson: 36 tests, 145 wkts @ 29.31, SR 57.9, Econ 3.03
Dennis Lillee: 70 tests, 355 wkts @ 23.92, SR 52.0, Econ 2.75
Malcom Marshall: 40 tests, 188 wkts @ 22.11, SR 47.1, Econ 2.81
Andy Roberts: 47 tests, 202 wkts @ 25.61, SR 55.1, Econ 2.78
John Snow: 47 tests, 194 wkts @ 26.60, SR 59.1, Econ 2.69
Bruce Taylor: 22 tests, 86 wkts @ 25.66, SR 57.1, Econ 2.69
Jeff Thomson: 51 tests, 200 wkts @ 28.00, SR 52.6, Econ 3.18
Bob Willis: 90 tests, 325 wkts @ 25.20, SR 53.4, Econ 2.83

The 5 runner-ups and the runner-up for the Spinner Poll will go into the "Final Bowler" Poll (and Botham, Imran and Dev will also be going into the Allrounder Poll if not selected here).

Btw, the 1966-85 World Test XI so far:

1. Sunil Gavaskar
2. Gordon Greenidge
3. Viv Richards (Poll still running here: http://forum.cricketweb.net/showthread.php?t=20194 )
4. ------------------
5. ------------------
6. ------------------
7. Alan Knott

 

[aussie tragic]

Sorry Guys, I had to delete the original Post and then re-post it as I forgot to make votes public

Please re-vote

 

[Pratters]

Hadlee and Imran for me. Garner and Marshall should miss out. Marshall should really have been picked in 1986-2005 given he took nearly half his career wickets in that period at 19 damnit.

Please provide the batting averages of Hadlee and Imran which should help in selection.

The excuse that the batting is deep is not valid generally because the teams would be facing similar strong teams of two decades.

Imran, Hadlee, Garner and Marshall all four average in the late 21 to 22s, and Imran and Hadlee would have better batting stats.

 

[silentstriker]

Wow, what a lineup of bowlers.

Imran and Marshall for me.

 

[aussie tragic]

Please provide the batting averages of Hadlee and Imran which should help in selection.

The excuse that the batting is deep is not valid generally because the teams would be facing similar strong teams of two decades.

Imran, Hadlee, Garner and Marshall all four average in the late 21 to 22s, and Imran and Hadlee would have better batting stats.

IMO, I think the batting averages should only be considered for the third pace bowler as here we just want the best two opening bowlers.

 

[Pratters]

IMO, I think the batting averages should only be considered for the third pace bowler as here we just want the best two opening bowlers

It should be left to the person who votes to decide on what criteria to vote. Best bowler or similar bowler but much better batsman.

 

[aussie tragic]

Slightly relevant, the 1979 Fastest Bowler competition on youtube shows you some of these bowlers in action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPDW7hj1yfs&mode=related&search=

 

[Lillian Thomson]

I think the allrounder at Number 6 should have been voted on first. Ian Botham would get into many people's XI but he's certainly not going to get into the final XI as opening bowler in that company. I voted for Marshall and Lillee.

 

[aussie tragic]

Just a summary of the stats:

Most Wickets: Lillee (355); Botham (343); Willis (325); Hadlee (299)
Best Average: Garner (21.78); Marshall (22.11); Imran (22.43); Hadlee (22.54)
Best Strike Rate: Marshall (47.1); Croft (49.3); Holding (50.8); Hadlee (51.8)
Best Economy: Garner (2.44); Imran (2.52); Hadlee (2.64); Snow/Taylor (2.69)

Edit: Excluding the Allrounder nominees (Botham, Imran & Dev who all ave > 30), the best batting of the pace bowlers is: Hadlee (24.98); Marshall (17.77); Taylor (17.59) and Lawson (15.16)

 

[grecian]

So the Big bird, best average, best economy rate, and only 2 votes! This is why democracy is wrong.

 

[aussie tragic]

So the Big bird, best average, best economy rate, and only 2 votes! This is why democracy is wrong.

It's still early, however if he misses out he should should get another shot in the Final Bowler Poll (although it looks like either Lillee or Hadlee will also be there).

 

[grecian]

Ahh well, I just think its because the West Indies had so many greats around then he didn't stand out. IMO, he was at least the equal of Curtley Ambrose and Glenn Mcgrath*, thats how good the guy was. Accuracy, pace, bounce with a virtually unplayable yorker. Virtually impossible to get away for runs, unless you nicked one.

* I know that they're not in this battle, was just giving a comparison for the young uns around here.

 

[adharcric]

So did we decide to allow guys to make two separate two-decade XIs, ie Imran Khan?

 

[aussie tragic]

So did we decide to allow guys to make two separate two-decade XIs, ie Imran Khan?

We decided to pick the best XI for each 2 decades. If Imran gets in both teams, then that just shows how great he was over such a long period.

Edit: Another option if he is selected in this team is that we select another # 6 for the 1986-2005 team (as Imran played the majority of his career in the 1966-85 period). However, let's see if he's selected first as Marshall, Lillee and Hadlee might win the pace bowler slots and Sobers and Botham will be tough competition in the Allrounder slot.

 

[adharcric]

Toughest choice yet. It boiled down to Garner, Hadlee, Holding, Khan, Lillee and Marshall.
Imran should be voted in as the all-rounder with Sobers coming higher up at #5 perhaps. For the other five, I created a points system incorporating average, s/r and e/r and surprisingly, Marshall and Garner topped with a 5.4 each, Hadlee (and Imran) got 4.8, Holding got 4.0 and Lillee failed to clear 4.0. I'll take Marshall for sure and Garner just slightly over Hadlee.

 

[adharcric]

We decided to pick the best XI for each 2 decades. If Imran gets in both teams, then that just shows how great he was over such a long period.

Edit: Another option if he is selected in this team is that we select another # 6 for the 1986-2005 team (as Imran played the majority of his career in the 1966-85 period). However, let's see if he's selected first as Marshall, Lillee and Hadlee might win the pace bowler slots and Sobers and Botham will be tough competition in the Allrounder slot.

I think Imran's presence in the team will depend upon whether you do the #5 poll before or after the all-rounder poll. If Sobers is already voted in, Imran will get his deserved spot. Otherwise, Sobers might take the all-rounder's spot. I'd say do the #5 poll first.

 

[aussie]

Imran & Hadlee, Marshall would be 1st change

 

[Slifer]

I think it would be a total injustice if Marshall didnt make atleast one of these 2 teams (same for Hadlee).

 

[Perm]

Richard Hadlee and Malcolm Marshall

 

[JBH001]

Yeah, I think the #5 poll should come first.

As I said elsewhere, the main selection thread, if we choose Sobers at #5 that gives us far more flexibility and options in terms of team make up and selection, not to mention an all-around stronger side, with a more varied and potent bowling attack with perhaps even the option of 2 spin bowlers to back up 2 quicks, a fast bowling all-rounder, and Sobers.

Besides, most of the bowlers on that list could bat a bit too, even Lillee and Marshall, so batting strength would not be diluted in any way, with a greater proportional increase in bowling strength. Anyway, I am leaning toward Lillee and Marshall (why so few votes for Lillee btw?) but I have not decided yet.