Pakistan

[Tim]

Pakistan 46/5 after electing to bat first in Sharjah.

Is it just me or is Shoaib Ahktar shadowing just how much dissaray the Pakistan team is in.

Lets face the facts, if it weren't for Shoaibs spell in the 2nd innings in Colombo the result of the 1st test would have been a far greater margin.

I hope for Pakistan's sakes that Shoaib makes the World Cup because I believe they will definately struggle to get passed the Super 6's without him.

 

[masterblaster]

Well well well, Pakistan 50/9 at the moment, absolutely pathetic display.

 

[Tim]

Pakistan are still showing they have their moments of bangladeshi brilliance by thrashing at anything outside offstump.

 

[Kimbo]

they seem pretty clueless alright...

 

[Rik]

Thats the problem with a lack of experiance, the Bangladeshi's have no one with any real stickability and also a lack of experiance. This Pakistan lineup has too many inexperianced attacking players like Bangladesh. Bangladesh might have very talented batsmen like Aminul Islam, Bashar and Ashraful but although Aminul and Bashar can hang around for a while too many of their other batsmen get out playing too aggressively. If Pakistan had fielded a few experianced players like Ijaz Ahmed in to steady the batting and played a few youngsters then I doubt they would have collapsed as badly. You need both experiance and youth, thats what the Paskistan selectors forgot. The only players over 30 in the team are Waqar who is a bowler and the WicketKeeper Latif, all the batsmen are young and inexperianced. Hopefully they will learn from this. No other team in the world would replace all their experianced batsmen who are injured, with players with no experiance.

 

[aussie_beater]

Originally posted by Rik
If Pakistan had fielded a few experianced players like Ijaz Ahmed in to steady the batting and played a few youngsters then

Very good point....where is Ijaz Ahmed ? He didn't refuse to play, did he ? Probably he could have been included as the senior players are out and provide a semblance of experience to this line-up.

I can't understand Pakistani cricket admins as well as their established players one bit. See this horrific performance and all the fightback of the Colombo test is a distant blur now.They are absolutely in the pit.

[Edited on 11/10/2002 by aussie_beater]

 

[Rik]

He was called up by the selectors to go to NZ when Pakistan Toured there in 2001 but quite bafflingly he was asked to open! He is a No.3 or middle order batsman and he was asked to open on the grassy NZ wickets and struggled scoring 11 in the 2nd test and 5 and 17 in the 3rd test. He has not played for Pakistan since although as far as I know he hasn't retired. One thing he does have over most Pakistan players is a very good record against Australia, averaging 47 against the Aussies in 14 tests with 6 100s and 1 50 and a Highest Score of 155. He averaged 41 in Australia and 56 against Australia in Pakistan.

He has a career average of 37, better than all the Pakistan batsmen playing in this test other than Younis Khan. But he is 34.

What is interisting however is that his opening partner Imran Farhat scored 26 runs in the 3 innings he opened with Ijaz compared to the 33 runs Ijaz scored. Both dismal returns but Ijaz still outscored his partner!

[Edited on 11/10/2002 by Rik]

 

[royGilchrist]

Ijaz has played well against Aus historically, so it might have been a wise decision from that point of view. But I dont think its worth going back to Ijaz. Although as someone else mentioned, Mohammad Wasim should have been tried for all 3 tests.

In my opinion this was series was also a test for Waqar as captain, he did well in the first test but has done that well in the second.

As i was saying that a young team like Pakistan's usually gets deflated after a loss like colombo's but with an exceptional captain at the helm things could have been different. And there is still plenty of cricket left in this series for Waqar to prove himself.

Imran when took over the captaincy in 1982 and went to england for his first series, against a tough england side (in England where it had become a norm for Pakistan to lose every series miserably for the previous 20 yrs or so), he had inherited a very inferior and inexperienced team, lost the first test, but bounced back to win the second, and in the third lost a very close one helped by some biased umpiring. This Pak team has loads more talent than that 1982 team.

 

[Gotchya]

Pak 59/9

:rolleyes: Before match one, something of the sort thinkable...after match one.....maybe i set expectations too high....

Very good point....where is Ijaz Ahmed ? He didn't refuse to play, did he ? Probably he could have been included as the senior players are out and provide a semblance of experience to this line-up.

Very bad point. At this juncture, you dont bring in players out of the blue who have been discarded (a little harsh) quite some time ago. He should have been playing international cricket before this series to earn a place. Invariably he would be rusty.
But you are dead right, no team in the world throws youngsters to the wolves like this. It is being highly unfair to them.

Pakistan are still showing they have their moments of bangladeshi brilliance by thrashing at anything outside offstump.

I see no reason why that should change. Consistently unconsistent.

This Pakistan lineup has too many inexperianced attacking players like Bangladesh.

One difference that should have been visible was that Pakistan have been around in big cricket for quite a while, consequently they have quite a few levels heads around as well, now if that doesn't pass on(through managers/coaches/captain himself), which is expected of mature cricketing nations, then its hopeless.

Lets face the facts, if it weren't for Shoaibs spell in the 2nd innings in Colombo the result of the 1st test would have been a far greater margin.

I hope for Pakistan's sakes that Shoaib makes the World Cup because I believe they will definately struggle to get passed the Super 6's without him.

The batsmen did make a fight out of it, but i agree the difference was Shoaibs effort, not a team performance. But i dont think its very wise to pass on judgements like that. There is still quite some cricket to be played and with Pakistan, its even more difficult to predict a pattern. For the moment though, praying that they get out of this one with a face.

 

[Gotchya]

As i was saying that a young team like Pakistan's usually gets deflated after a loss like colombo's but with an exceptional captain at the helm things could have been different. And there is still plenty of cricket left in this series for Waqar to prove himself.

Precisely. I have been squinting to see some back patting, alas it doesn't seem to be there.

 

[Rik]

Ijaz was the only experianced batsman I could think of at the time who wasn't injured. Ijaz would be a good choice. Wasim is gifted but frustratingly inconsistant and there are barely any experianced players available any more. Wasim would be a better choice than Taufeeq Umar however.

 

[Gotchya]

You are right in thinking that Ijaz is the only experienced player, but the problem is that he is not current. A big hurdle for him to cross.

 

[basil]

[quoteposted by Tim[/i]
Pakistan 46/5 aft]Originally er electing to bat first in Sharjah.


I hope for Pakistan's sakes that Shoaib makes the World Cup because I believe they will definately struggle to get passed the Super 6's without him. [/quote

That was dumb really,but not unexpected from someone like Tim!

First of all don't get mixed up b/w the two format of cricket, onedayer cric is a totally different ball game, and Pak have been a poor test team but a very good onedayer team since some time!

Tim have been suggesting time and again that Pak is a one man team in Akhter which is totally ridiculous.First of all Anwar/Youhanna/Inzi are missing from the team, when ur top three batters are missing and ur senior most batter is someone who has just played 20 test matches then u are bound to struggle.When the seniors will return, things will change, in the last test match, it wasn't just Akhter who did well, Saqi,Taufeeq and Faisal did extremely well and had Pak won the match , the man of the match might have been Faisal.

I had predicted before that Pak would be in real trouble in the second test match coz when a young team loses a touch and go test match like they did in Lanka, then the moral of the team is really down.That was a problem with the player besides with their inexperiance



[Edited on 12/10/2002 by basil]

 

[basil]

Originally posted by Rik
Ijaz was the only experianced batsman I could think of at the time who wasn't injured. Ijaz would be a good choice. Wasim is gifted but frustratingly inconsistant and there are barely any experianced players available any more. Wasim would be a better choice than Taufeeq Umar however.

I have no doubt that had Ejaz been selected, he would have come up with a big ton against Aus in Sharjah, a typical Ejaz saving innings after which Pak would had to draft him again into the side which would have been really very bad coz Ejaz is a real flat track bully!

There are other experianced players too, like Saleem Elahi, Mohd Waseem and even Afridi.Mohd Waseem should really have been in the team, Afridi is not test material BUT on Sharjah's track he could have been usefull especially when the present inexperianced openers are doing nothing.

Also, when the batting is so weak, shouldn't Pak had been better off going into the match with 6 regular batters?? I'm not a fan of H Raza, but among the present players, he's the best player of spin, don't know why Pak is persisting with 5 bowlers.

 

[royGilchrist]

which would have been really very bad coz Ejaz is a real flat track bully!

Some stats about Ijaz against Aus in Aus:

Pak in Aus '89 - Innings=5, runs=180, average=36

Pak in Aus '95 - innings=4, runs=193, average=63

Pak in Aus '99 - innings=6, runs=209, average=35

So I'm not sure how u r implying that Ijaz is a flat track bully only (as you say that it would have been very bad if he got selected and would have done well on flat tracks), he has played very well in Aus relative to his overall career average, and relative to to other Pakistanis playing in Aus. BTW his career average is 38.

 

[Rik]

Cricinfo said his career average was 37, but he did have that run of bad scores in NZ which may have lowered his average. Its the typical problem of "We can't select him incase he does well and we have to keep him,in the team and he might keep on doing well." This problem has been the bane of quite a few cricketer's careers including Tuffers. Surely a cricket team should be about who is performing! We don't need to go back to the old "Picking your mates from the pub" or "filling the team with youngsters as they are the future" you need equal ammounts! If Ijaz had been selected and played well then maybe he might have stayed in the team and continued to do well and maybe help Pakistan win tests but no, the selectors would rather loose as long as loads of young players are getting experiance!

 

[Neil Pickup]

Many more results like this and the experience will have a hugely negative effect.

By all means give youth plenty of chances, but there has to be some experience, and when after Waqar then it's Saqlain, Danish, Younis Khan, Razzaq and Latif then, well, things like this will happen when the pressure's on and the Aussies are on fire.

Basil - Pakistan may have been struggling in tests for some time, but not this badly. Even in the ODIs in SL and Kenya they were woefully unconvincing, and if the WC were this month then I couldn't see them making the Super Six. However, there's four months to go and anything can happen then. But they're not a one-man team Tim.

 

[basil]

[
Basil - Pakistan may have been struggling in tests for some time, but not this badly. Even in the ODIs in SL and Kenya they were woefully unconvincing, and if the WC were this month then I couldn't see them making the Super Six. However, there's four months to go and anything can happen then. But they're not a one-man team Tim.

Why can't u read my post clearly?? I said that Pak would be a diff team in the WC COZ the seniors would return by then.Anwar,Inzi,Youhanna,Afridi, Akram, that is nearly half of the team that is missing and the ONLY batter of the present line up that will be part of the onedayer team is Younis khan, now do u see the difference???

If the present team takes part in the WC, then yes it will never make it to the super six!
If Pak struggled in Kenya and Sl, then so did Sl a couple of months back, yet Sl bounced back.It was bad patch , Pak will regain their form quickly.

 

[Gotchya]

Basil : I refuse to believe that this is just a 'bad' run of form, something near humiliating. The players will definitely make a difference, but there is something known as a 'frame of mind', I dont see that going miles near positive anytime soon. Thats where the problem will be largely. After all this, it is very very difficult to get out. Not impossible with Pakistan, but wihtout doubt its going to be one steep hill to climb from here.

 

[aussie_beater]

Originally posted by basil

[
...Pak will regain their form quickly.

The problem doesn't look like its related to form but something more fundamental. Yes they didn't have key players, but then tour matches with sides with nobody significant in the ranks also fair better then this.

IMO, its baby steps from here for Pakistan and not long jumps of the Bob Beamon kind.