Over rated Vettori?

[Deja moo]

Read this article on beaggygreen and felt it echoed what I have felt for a long time about vettori...

He has often been touted as the best left-arm spinner in the world, but going strictly by his recent record, Daniel Vettori is perhaps only the eighth-best of his kind. Over the last three years – since January 1, 2001 – Vettori has managed just over two wickets per Test, at a rather unflattering average of almost 50. Among the bowlers who have done better are Mohammad Rafique, Ray Price, Sanath Jayasuriya and Ashley Giles.

A reason often offered in defence of Vettori is the kind of pitches he bowls on most of the time – the tracks in New Zealand are mostly seamer-friendly, and provide little assistance to spinners. While that may be the case, Vettori has hardly come to the party in more spinner-friendly conditions: his 38 wickets in the subcontinent have come at 40 apiece.

In his last 22 Tests, Vettori has taken only two five-fors, both of which came on the tour to Australia in 2001-02. Since then, 19 Tests have fetched him 35 wickets. The latest instance of underperformance came in the home series against South Africa. On pitches which were quite dry and favourable to spinners, Vettori came away with returns of four wickets in three Tests at an exorbitant average of 113.50. The contrast with Nicky Boje, the other left-arm spinner who played in the series, was especially stark in the final Test at Wellington – Boje took four wickets in each innings to return superb match figures of 8 for 134; Vettori went wicketless – though, to be fair to him, he was denied a couple of times by Asoka de Silva – conceding 129 runs from 44 largely harmless overs.

Since Jan 2001 Tests Wkts Ave Wkt/Test SR
Jayasuriya 32 39 27.36 1.22 75.41
Rafique 9 39 28.54 4.33 66.9
Boje 14 38 32.74 2.71 64.74
Price 17 69 35.55 4.06 73.72
Adams 12 40 35.98 3.33 61.03
Henderson 7 22 42.18 3.14 89.18
Giles 28 67 43.61 2.39 93.67
Vettori 22 48 49.25 2.18 99.60

 

[Mingster]

He's not the best if you judge on him over the past few years, but you can't take away what he did in the early stages of his career.

 

[thierry henry]

Of course he's overrated. He takes away attention from much more deserving NZ performers as well.

 

[BlackCap_Fan]

I think he is,but he was brilliant in his early stages.Since the remoddeling of his action hes been quite average.

 

[masterblaster]

I rate him very highly, he's only a young man yet he has been around forever.

With further age and experience he will only get better.

Spinners are like wine, in the sense that they get better with age, and Vettori will be no different.

He is a proven match winner with the ball, bat and in the field, plus there aren't many other spinning options in New Zealand that are much better than him.

He's a handy cricketer, but by the time he will be 32 he will be one of the best in his trade.

 

[Craig]

Bruce Martin should be second choice, not Paul Wiseman :rolleyes:

Whatever people say he is still NZ's no.1 spinner and is unlikely to be dropped.

 

[Loony BoB]

I don't think he's all that bad and I do think that he could hit the record books at some point due to him starting so early, but at the moment he's definitely not getting better with age. Maybe later. He's still pretty young for an international cricketer, and he's been around for years, which does say something.

 

[anzac]

perhaps not over rated as a craftsman, but more an underachiever for his talent....................

for a long time he was one of only a few spin bowlers of any type that would actually flight the ball & drift it in - even now most still tend to bowl ODI style = flat!!!!

he doesn't seem to get a lot of turn on the ball which is a big disadvantage - his arm ball used to be his weapon but that seems to have gone off the boil - me thinks he needs to develop some further variation to his arsenal if he is unable to generate more sideways spin - perhaps a good top spinner may be useful in partnership with the arm ball - or are they one & the same these days??????????

 

[Langeveldt]

I havent seen Vettori since he has remodelled his action... He impressed me last time he was England.. He has been around for a long time!

I think guys like Price, maybe even Boje and Jayasuriya have overtaken him now... I guess its a case of if the new action will work for him or not....

 

[Dougie Rydal]

I agree with the view of Vetorri.

Whatever people say about he's been unlucky etc, the fact remains he hasn't for a few years taken 'a bag', and seems to solely fill the role of a stock bowler now.

I wonder how long NZ would have persevered with a batsman showing the same kind of form. If a batsman had been unlucky over a period of time getting some rough decisions (same as i hear from the Pro-Vetorri brigade), he'd be gone after say 5 innings of little substance.

Now after saying all that i don't think there is anyone to replace him but i get irritated by those who dare to criticise Vettori, almost like he's some kind of protected species.

The bottom line is that he doesn't take wickets anymore.

 

[Deja moo]

Maybe he should be sent back to domestic cricket till he turns into the fine aged wine or whatever?

 

[SquidAU]

How old is Vettori now?

I still think he has it in him to bowl well...his batting has improved.

 

[Craig]

25.

 

[ND_fan]

First of all, I totally agree with Craig about Bruce Martin being NZ's second spinner over wiseman - he's much younger and has a huge future and deserves to be in the squad to England. Also, I think Vettori is just going through a long rough patch and soon enough he'll get back on track. Much has been said about him not getting a wicket since the first match of the test series vs SA but there were several missed chances off his bowling that he had no control over.

 

[V Reddy]

I rate him very highly, he's only a young man yet he has been around forever.

With further age and experience he will only get better.

Spinners are like wine, in the sense that they get better with age, and Vettori will be no different.

He is a proven match winner with the ball, bat and in the field, plus there aren't many other spinning options in New Zealand that are much better than him.

He's a handy cricketer, but by the time he will be 32 he will be one of the best in his trade.

I think he is declining with age than getting better :P

 

[tooextracool]

I think he is declining with age than getting better :P

so what would that make him.....a banana getting rotten?
very razzaq like

 

[Kent]

Dan must be dropped from the squad tomorrow for this alone...

It was for charity, so thumbs up to him really.

The core members of www.beigebrigade.co.nz all have former Black Caps as their nicknames, except for (or is it including?) Dan "Bruce Martin" Vettori!

 

[Mingster]

On a more serious note. I like the look of Bruce Martin. He is shorter than Vettori, and gets good loop and flight from his deliveries. Looks to me a far more attacking bowler than the Post-Vettori.

 

[Lions81]

No question Vettori is overrated just in the fact that he continues to command a test position. His average is 37.8, after 53 test matches. That is a terrible average really. I'm sure if Fleming decided to have a go at turning his arm over, he'd do just as well and maybe New Zealand could stick an extra middle-order batsman in Vettori's place. No question Vettori is a useful bat down the order, but a specialist batsman at 8 or 9? I don't see much use in that.

As far as another spinner, the question is why? Does a test side have to include a spinner? Why pick the best of a bad bunch of spinners when there are better pacers who can and should play? I say when Bond regains his fitness, play Bond, Tuffey, Martin and Butler or Mills. Butler's got the pace but lacks control. I'd say using him as a fourth pacer would allow him to focus on line and length instead of asking him to be a spearhead. Or get him a specialist coach to work on that. With that kind of pace, he could be real special.

 

[Mingster]

Butler's pace is extremely overrated. He ain't that fast. Only Fast-Medium.