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*Official* South Africa in New Zealand

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
Well he's only played around 12 or 13 tests so you can't really judge from that at this stage.

Sometimes he just looks too relaxed at the crease, if he can smarten up a little I don't see him losing his spot in the test side for a long time.
 

Kent

State 12th Man
I couldn't help but laugh when I saw Styris relishing his place in a dead-rubber more than my darling Ross Taylor would've! :saint:

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I would be hard for me to complain about Thierry H's issue because at 40/6 I wasn't exactly calling for more blood. Neither was anyone else at the ground, and NZ went from having McGraths at both ends to being as flat as the crowd was earlier on.

Seriously though, I think there could be skills in bowling to lower orders that perhaps the team haven't mastered. I think Fleming puts a lot of time into analysing patterns, and maybe he hasn't figured out what to do with more unpredictable dangers. It's not like we have a Brett Lee who seems to specialise in improving his figures by closing an innings well.

They're hardly on their own though. I'm sure a lot of overseas fans have been livid after seeing NZ 7 down with Vettori edging every second ball to gully. Then 4 hours later...

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I'm still within fairly close proximity of Napier for the rest of this week to spot Minki and co., but I think I've seen enough to realise how spoilt guys like Langeveldt are (or were). Homer's 'Chesty Le Roux' fantasy wouldn't be out of place in the SA entourage, and I'm puzzled where the ref-tackling Pieter Van Zyl fits into the genetics.
 
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Craig

World Traveller
Look I think you should treat all tail enders like batsmen, no matter how bad they are. Treat them like tail enders and think a wicket is around the corner, it doesnt quite work like that.
 

Isolator

State 12th Man
MoxPearl said:
the point is stephen fleeming takes risks.. he risked bowling out all the good bowlers in hoping he would take all the wickets.

The risk did not pay off but thats cricket for you
I'm not arguing with his tactics. The point I made earlier stands.

(myself) :

That's not the point. The problem is that they fall apart completely. They were caught unawares, the complacency was visible. There were missed opportunities, dropped catches, frustration... if those are deliberate tatics, they're bloody strange.
Remember Jacob Oram clutching his head while Lee was smacking him for sixes in that WC game? That's symbolic of what happens to them.
You see, NZ were quite shellshocked yesterday. It was as if they expected the tail to get itself out. That's pretty ********, in my opinion.
 

Isolator

State 12th Man
Kent said:
I'm sure a lot of overseas fans have been livid after seeing NZ 7 down with Vettori edging every second ball to gully. Then 4 hours later...
Haha, yeah. I happen to like the sight, though :)
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
Kent said:

I'm still within fairly close proximity of Napier for the rest of this week to spot Minki and co., but I think I've seen enough to realise how spoilt guys like Langeveldt are (or were). Homer's 'Chesty Le Roux' fantasy wouldn't be out of place in the SA entourage, and I'm puzzled where the ref-tackling Pieter Van Zyl fits into the genetics.


Well, if you ever get the opportunity to go to South Africa.. Make sure you check out Pretoria and Durban..... But first of all make sure you have absolutely no female commitments with you :D :D
Going to a cricket match on a hot day is like being in a really big natural selection experiment, where only the fittest survive :)
 

Kent

State 12th Man
You see, that's the thing. We see such an inordinate number of beautiful South African women, plus the climate is so good, there must be so much inspiration to look your best. Hence the great sporting talent and the determined personalities perhaps. In hindsight someone like Percy Montgomery can be understood, regardless of his orientation.

But we get this stereotype with the beer guts and Springboks jerseys, with the braai and everything. I play golf with an ex-pat who hits it as far in metres as he must weigh in pounds.

A globe-trotting friend of mine says SA society is still so chauvinist and the women so, um, 'bubbly' they can get away with it, but as you said about natural selection I had serious doubts. I've always assumed things are visually pleasant for these guys and no more.
 

Kent

State 12th Man
I just realised how close I might be to the moderators' whip...

How about this warm-up game tomorrow? Can South Africa turn it around, or will CD's talented batting line-up give coach Greatbatch a fittingly swashbuckling send-off? We know Gary Kirsten will play anway, but which other reinforcements will really be pushing their case for the test line-up?

My enthusiasm is transparent, but something easier for everyone else to reply to perhaps... ;)
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
I don't think NZ cricket is reviving from anything because previously they've never really done any good.
 

Kent

State 12th Man
Personally I like to view NZ cricket's history (which I admit I have a soft spot for) in a similar regard to an English county or Australian state. Sure our players get the advantage of constant international exposure, but the current team's recent ODI performances will be savoured for years by the standards I adopt, rather than the 'yeah, but now...' thing we like to do instead.

I'm all for being tough to satisfy and pursuing excellence and all that, but I worry most Kiwi cricket fans won't realise what they've got 'til it's gone for 20 years again. I think under Fleming we can have at least four more years before reaching an apex, so hopefully we can do some great things in that time.
 

thierry henry

International Coach
Kent, I think I agree with what you're saying there.

I personally get really riled when I see the media saying that "NZ cricket is on the way up again", or "this looks promising for the future/Next World Cup", or whatever. It seems to happen every time we win a series, and the reverse occurs when we lose.

Realistically, after a bad era in the first half of the 90s, we have been a competitive and relatively stable side for several years now. I'd say from about 1998/99 onwards we've been a competitive international side with minor ups and downs along the way. If anything, a lot of our good players of this era have either retired, or are close to retirement. If anything I would say we are close to the END of a good era, as opposed to the start of one (although I don't predict anything too drastic- we have some good youngsters coming through.) It frustrates me that media and the public have been too fickle to fully understand just what a good era the last 5 or so years has been.
 

BlackCap_Fan

State Vice-Captain
thierry henry said:
Kent, I think I agree with what you're saying there.

I personally get really riled when I see the media saying that "NZ cricket is on the way up again", or "this looks promising for the future/Next World Cup", or whatever. It seems to happen every time we win a series, and the reverse occurs when we lose.

Realistically, after a bad era in the first half of the 90s, we have been a competitive and relatively stable side for several years now. I'd say from about 1998/99 onwards we've been a competitive international side with minor ups and downs along the way. If anything, a lot of our good players of this era have either retired, or are close to retirement. If anything I would say we are close to the END of a good era, as opposed to the start of one (although I don't predict anything too drastic- we have some good youngsters coming through.) It frustrates me that media and the public have been too fickle to fully understand just what a good era the last 5 or so years has been.
true.

Wow,Cairns,Astle and Fleming are all in there 30's.They will be gone in about 5 years,if we're lucky.Cairns will go soon,hes 33,coming on 34.
 

Mingster

State Regular
BlackCap_Fan said:
Wow,Cairns,Astle and Fleming are all in there 30's.They will be gone in about 5 years,if we're lucky.Cairns will go soon,hes 33,coming on 34.
5 years is alot mate. Not a very smart thing to say there.

The nucleus of the team over the next year or two will be built around Fleming, Styris, Cairns, Oram, Vettori, Tuffey and Bond.

However we need to find people to support them. That's where the new talents like Papps and Marshall come into the fore.
 

BlackCap_Fan

State Vice-Captain
Mingster said:
5 years is alot mate. Not a very smart thing to say there.

The nucleus of the team over the next year or two will be built around Fleming, Styris, Cairns, Oram, Vettori, Tuffey and Bond.

However we need to find people to support them. That's where the new talents like Papps and Marshall come into the fore.
yeah,I put that a bit bluntly.

If styris is going to become like cairns(as a batsmen) he needs to work on shot selection alot.Like pulling short balls that are VERY wide outside off-stump without moving your feet.

I think oram will become one of the worlds best all-rounders,in time.I also think that I am the only one who thinks that.
 

Mingster

State Regular
BlackCap_Fan said:
yeah,I put that a bit bluntly.

If styris is going to become like cairns(as a batsmen) he needs to work on shot selection alot.Like pulling short balls that are VERY wide outside off-stump without moving your feet.

I think oram will become one of the worlds best all-rounders,in time.I also think that I am the only one who thinks that.
Styris is upto the same level of Cairns in terms of batting in ODIs. He has averaged 57 in his last 35 games. Not bad. And he has averaged 22 with the ball as well.

Styris is a very shaky batsman early on, but when he gets going, he's a wonderful sight.

Yes I also think Oram will be a champion allrounder some day, but he needs to bat inside the Top 6 consistently to do so.
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
Kent said:
You see, that's the thing. We see such an inordinate number of beautiful South African women, plus the climate is so good, there must be so much inspiration to look your best. Hence the great sporting talent and the determined personalities perhaps. In hindsight someone like Percy Montgomery can be understood, regardless of his orientation.

But we get this stereotype with the beer guts and Springboks jerseys, with the braai and everything. I play golf with an ex-pat who hits it as far in metres as he must weigh in pounds.

A globe-trotting friend of mine says SA society is still so chauvinist and the women so, um, 'bubbly' they can get away with it, but as you said about natural selection I had serious doubts. I've always assumed things are visually pleasant for these guys and no more.

hehe yeah it must be the fattest place bar the USA... I dont think the huge amounts of Biltong are particularly good for you, but the ladies seem to stay away from the braais in my experience...
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Mingster said:
Styris is upto the same level of Cairns in terms of batting in ODIs. He has averaged 57 in his last 35 games. Not bad. And he has averaged 22 with the ball as well.
I'd like to know where you get those figure from, because they don't stack up with his Cricinfo ones.

In 2003 he played 23 matches and in 2004 so far it's 11 (which makes as close to 35 a dammit)

In that time he's got 1011 runs at 38.88 and 34 wickets at 26.03

Good figures I grant you, but nowhere near what you claim!

Also, I would have said he's playing as a batsman who can fill in 5 or 6 overs, rather than a genuine all rounder.
 

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