*Official** New Zealand in England

[Rich2001]

Quality page of posting chaps, gave me a good laugh

I think what annoyed Cork the most (and do correct me if I am wrong here) was that the catch was taken with about 5 runs to win or something... and the batsman out was set and going great guns, him getting out made the #11 come out and was cleaned up pretty quickly resulting in Derby losing the game and as a result that one loss then resulted in them going out and Hodges team going through.

How did we get here again

 

[Neil Pickup]

I think it was along the lines of incompetent umpiring decisions (btw, I was standing at square leg in the match I mentioned, not the bowler's end...)

 

[anzac]

well what an improbable day for NZL..............
a first innings lead no less, aided by some poor shot selection nodoubt,
and Cairns gets his best figures for some years in his last test with a 5 for,
Franklin snares 4,
and both have bowled less overs than their ENG counterparts!!!!!!

the NZL 2nd innings is not in the best shape at 190/5 (regardless of some poor decisions), and the lower middle order MUST contribute to secure a minimum of another 100 runs to give ENG a 350+ target & something that the NZL bowlers can work with..............

unfortunately this will require both Cairns & Franklin to also do some work with the bat b4 backing up with the lion's share of the bowling again.............considering the series so far what odds one of them may have an injury scare??????

 

[anzac]

Cairns' use of his slower ball is a sign that he is at last confident with his bowling form - he hasn't used it all year and when asked why had indicated it was a confidence thing (in the series v RSA I think)..........

I know I said at one stage that I thought he'd perhaps save his best bowling for last & sign off on a high note, but I didn't imagine these circumstances........perhaps the injuries have made him work harder & having to bowl more overs with some pressure / responsibility on him has been what he needed????

If Franklin is managing to maintain some swing then that too is a good sign, as he had lost that element over the past few seasons as I understand it..........pity he can't pick up a yard or two in pace..........however I expect he'd get the nod for a squad birth ahead of Mills & Co so far.............

depending on injuries & the like he could be competing with Martin for a spot in the team, as I don't believe Martin should be scrapped on the basis of this series after he showed his potential v RSA..........it could just be that he really doesn't like the Duke balls & his confidence is completely shot to pieces.............another candidate for my 'horses for courses' theory?????

 

[anzac]

speaking of trends etc - so far as the batting goes the stage is now set for McMillan to play his trademark 'rescue' innings..........hold the middle & lower order together, score a 50+, set the match up for NZL to be in with a shot to win it & thus regain favour with selectors & public alike..............until the next series where we will start all over again...........

 

[anzac]

I reckon it's something to do with fitness.

I don't think he's been 100% since during the home series v PAK & has been getting worse with each subsequent series.............again the NZL way of 'playing thru' injury because we don't have any experienced options'...........

 

[anzac]

At least he's a sub - so he wouldn't be able to bat anyway.

*waits to see how many falls to Harmo's bouncers*

ah yes but the Tri-Series is looming on the horizon so perhaps he's getting in early????

 

[SpaceMonkey]

speaking of trends etc - so far as the batting goes the stage is now set for McMillan to play his trademark 'rescue' innings..........hold the middle & lower order together, score a 50+, set the match up for NZL to be in with a shot to win it & thus regain favour with selectors & public alike..............until the next series where we will start all over again...........

He sounds like the NZ version of Mark Butcher wait till the pressures on then pull a good innings out to keep the doubters quiet.

 

[anzac]

NZ stuffed this series up big-time & management need to cop alot of the blame.
Certainly injuries took their toll, but NZ had a fit side at Lords and their poor performance set the tone for the rest of the series.

For starters...the opening combination of Richardson (mainly), Fleming & Papps have done their job..they've averaged around 70 which is brilliant. But the middle order has been rubbish & shuffling the order around in pretty much every innings has contributed to part of the failure.
McCullum's moved up & down...Oram likewise..Styris & Astle seem to be swapping every innings & McMillan the sole player who has pretty much batted in the same position can have plenty of blame laid on him for triggering serious batting collapses or getting out at a key moment.

I can't explain Tuffey's poor form, but he looks like the same average bowler that he was pre-2002 and thats not a good sign. I think Vettori has bowled well & at times he was a little unlucky...Cairns until the 3rd test was crap, Oram has bowled pretty well & Martin has simply failed to fire.

I have my doubts about the 'fitness' of a couple of players at Lords (Tuffey, Astle), but I think they were probably at their 'best' in that Test...........

I agree with what you say about the Top Order - it's a bit of a change from their usual contributions, but I still maintain that the type of players we have in our middle order is partly to blame - esp when they partner Richardson........

in this lineup I'd rather see McCullum at #4 after Fleming because of his experience at the top of the order at State level (not that I think he is a 'proper' #4, just as I don't think Styris is a proper #4)..........

so far as McMillan goes - how many times have we said the same thing re his batting - esp in recent ODI series - lack of responsibility / application etc........

no doubt it is time for him to make another comment about the press getting on his back - what series was that from??????

 

[anzac]

He sounds like the NZ version of Mark Butcher wait till the pressures on then pull a good innings out to keep the doubters quiet.

IMO he's very much a player who can not handle the faster / bouncier pitches or express bowling.........

at home in 12 series he averages better than 40 in 10 of them, yet in 11 away series (including this), he only betters a series average of 30 in 4 of them........

since ENG last toured NZL in 01/02 he has played in 7 series for 20 innings, scored 466 runs with 3 n.o.'s, for an average of 27, with 3x50 & 1x100 (and 2x50 & 1x100 v IND in IND, where he also scored 237 of his 466 runs and had 2xn.o.'s!!!!!)

if you take that series in IND out of the equation = 6 series, 17 innings, 229 runs, 1xno, an average of 14 with the only 50+ score being his 82 v RSA in the last series b4 this (where he scored a total of 101 runs to average 50.5 in 2 innings).........

so apart from Away to IND & Home to RSA he has averaged less than crapola.......at the very least his career average of 40 is very misleading in light of his past few seasons where IND gives his some VERY inflated figures IMO..........


as I mentioned in an earlier post - by contrast both Sinclair & Vincent have better Away series averages than their Home series, both perform better than McMillan either Away or on quicker tracks with more bounce (even in NZL), & against predominantly seam attacks..........

McMillan is your A-typical slow & low flat track bully...............

 

[meatspx]

speaking of trends etc - so far as the batting goes the stage is now set for McMillan to play his trademark 'rescue' innings..........hold the middle & lower order together, score a 50+, set the match up for NZL to be in with a shot to win it & thus regain favour with selectors & public alike..............until the next series where we will start all over again...........

I couldn't have said it better! Also they selected the one-day squad too early - test form should be considered, as it is evidently indicative of form. Tuffey is out of sorts - should he be in the ODI squad? No - he should have a rest, work at the academy, and play in Bangladesh. There's plenty of cricket to be played in the future, NZ selectors need to become much more braver.

 

[anzac]

I couldn't have said it better! Also they selected the one-day squad too early - test form should be considered, as it is evidently indicative of form. Tuffey is out of sorts - should he be in the ODI squad? No - he should have a rest, work at the academy, and play in Bangladesh. There's plenty of cricket to be played in the future, NZ selectors need to become much more braver.

agreed - but I'll believe it when they either drop McMillan, or start picking 'horses for courses' for both batting & bowling, AND have a better mix to the batting lineup..........(which again may be different depending on the series venues).............

that also goes for the likes of Vettori (IMO his primary function is spin bowling - his batting is a bonus),

and they start to pick players who are 100% fit & in form...........

and they start introducing new faces to the touring squads to gain experience & provide hungry competition for places in both batting & bowling.........


hell come to think of it this is all a bit too much for these selectors & their conservative approach - unless Fleming kicks up a stink along these lines it'll never happen........as evident by Bracewell's comments (got to mention them again )

 

[Kent]

Considering how Geoff Allott got the white ball to swing markedly in '99, Franklin isn't even in our tri-series squad yet is he? We've got an out-of-sorts Tuffey, an out-of-sorts Mills, and Butler, whose never done anything in even domestic OD's to write home about.

Perhaps the injuries to Mills or Vettori will give Franklin a lifeline, but otherwise I think Meatpx was absolutely right - the tri-series team was picked far too early.

 

[anzac]

Considering how Geoff Allott got the white ball to swing markedly in '99, Franklin isn't even in our tri-series squad yet is he? We've got an out-of-sorts Tuffey, an out-of-sorts Mills, Butler whose never done anything in even domestic OD's to write home about, and Mason.

Perhaps the injuries to Mills or Vettori will give Franklin a lifeline, but otherwise I think Meatpx was absolutely right - the tri-series team was picked far too early.

unless Vettori is expected to recover in time, they'll have to re think as they'll not have a spinner..........that may provide the opportunity to re think some other options as well.............fingers crossed..........

 

[Langeveldt]

I can beat that... Grimoldby U15 v Caistor U15 last year

Bowler comes in, bowls, batsman gets down and sweeps to square leg, umpire calls wide.

I can beat that...

Hit the ball to square leg, went through for a quick single... At the other end I ran into the bowler and my bat demolished the stumps (Having made my ground)

Was given out.. bowled...

 

[anzac]

just incase anyone thinks that I'm totally against McMillan, I'd have him in my Test team for Home series, and I'd keep him in the ODI team as he's actually been averaging above his average in his past few series...........regardless of venues..........

 

[Tim]

Martin is not as good as gone from the NZ team...I still think he'll make the Australian tour & then the NZ home season because there is no cricket being played back here so other bowlers won't have the expected level of fitness to be picked.

Martin's seam presentation has been spot-on, but he's just been too inconsistent with line & length.

I've always rated Franklin...like McCullum, I think he was thrown into the boiler room in the VB Series a few years back & he looks like he's gone back & done some work at domestic level. Personally i'd pick him ahead of Mills because he's a left-armer and I think he just has that extra bit of pace on him.

 

[marc71178]

Point of interest - have you ever tried to do a BBB commentary?
We did it for the semi-final and final of WC2003 on Cricket Web - and believe me, after an hour of it you need to go and have a lie down. You know you have just made a mistake, there's no time to correct yourself and it's on your mind for the next ten minutes - in the meantime you've made three more, got the batsmen mixed up, missed a couple of dot balls, a total eclipse of the sun or the daily mirror and thrown up on your own shoes.

even worse when Punter was bowling 2 twirlers at about 25-30 overs per hour to try and beat the rain!

 

[Loony BoB]

as evident by Bracewell's comments

Tip: Don't listen to Bracewell's comments. If anything, he's trying to confuse the opposition as much as he's trying to confuse us, because pretty much everything he's said he was going to do has been a bit off. Starting to wonder about that guy.

unless Vettori is expected to recover in time, they'll have to re think as they'll not have a spinner..........that may provide the opportunity to re think some other options as well.............fingers crossed..........

Vettori's injury wasn't as bad as it looked, according to news reports, and he's already spent a bit of time in the nets. We'll see how things go.

just incase anyone thinks that I'm totally against McMillan, I'd have him in my Test team for Home series, and I'd keep him in the ODI team as he's actually been averaging above his average in his past few series...........regardless of venues..........

I can agree with you there. I'd like to see another player given a shot, Macca can have another go later on if they don't pull through.

Agree with most of Tim's post, too. I think people wouldn't be blasting Martin as much if he had a decent bowler at the other end, too, as Tuffey in my opinion has been the real let-down.

 

[_Ed_]

McMillan gone.

Tight LBW call, hawkeye says it would have just got the faintest touch on leg stump...

What happened to the benefit of the doubt?