***Official*** Australia in England (The Ashes)

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Aus should be happy to have restricted Eng to 4 - 229, especially with Warne hardly bowling.

Eng won toss and batted on as flat a wicket as Ive seen for some time.

Strauss played a horrible shot and deserved his fate. Despite scoring a century last match, I still maintain that he's relatively clueless against Warne.

Tresco got a gem after playing well but with his usual scares.

Bell got a beauty. Those of you who claim that it was a half-volley, etc have never confronted the difficulty of facing 90 mph outswingers.

Vaughan should neck himself. Aus have done everything in their power to restore his form and he tries to run an half-tracker from Ponting to third man.

Except for Hayden's drop, Aus fielding was its' best of series to date.

Dont know why people are saying we lacked intensity, etc. They were generally excellent in the field and bowlers all tried hard but its hard to look fiersome when bouncers are lucky to reach waist height.

Aus got lucky with rain breaks as they disrupted rhythm and quickened pitch up.

Finally, I thought Tait put in one of the most impressive debuts Ive seen in many, many years - speed of nearly 95 mph and swinging it both ways. He reminds me of a bigger, very raw Waqar and if he ever learns to use his run-up and follow through, he'll be truly frightening. Hopefully, he wont cripple himself in the meantime.

 

[Paid The Umpire]

Not a bad effort for Australia. Could have been alot worse.

England to win... Need at least 400 or better yet 450. Then hold a 150+ run lead going into the second dig.
Australia to win... Need to slow England's runs up, and then bowl them out for about 300-350. Get a first innings lead.

 

[howardj]

I think England have the upper hand, only slightly though. People severely underestimate the value of runs on the board. I can not see the Poms getting less than 350 from here, and they're quite likely to get 400. The key will be whether Pietersen trusts the tail. In previous innnings, he's gone too hard too early when batting with the tail, and has been caught at deep mid-wicket. Hopefully he has observed that they can at least hold up an end.

Anyway, 400 is a magnificent first innings score. I remember people saying - to my utter disbelief - after the opening days play at Edgbaston, that Australia had the upper hand because they bowled England out for 400 on an extremely flat pitch. Such a comment totally underestimated the value of runs on the board. Teams just seem to feel the pressure if the opposition has already posted a substantial first innings score. There's no doubt Australia will feel it, if England post 400.

 

[Top_Cat]

Finally, I thought Tait put in one of the most impressive debuts Ive seen in many, many years - speed of nearly 95 mph and swinging it both ways. He reminds me of a bigger, very raw Waqar and if he ever learns to use his run-up and follow through, he'll be truly frightening.

There's nothing wrong with Tait's run-up and follow-through. For his action, it works and not everyone has to charge in like Lee to be quick. Perfect example; Thommo. The quickest bowler in Test history (no, I don't believe Shoaib is quicker based on the speed gun readings for the Pakistani fans. ) virtually jogged to the wicket. His speed came from the whip he generated with his action and Tait is the same. There's very few modifications, based on how his body works, that one could make. He is as he is. Unless he starts getting injured (he's one of the few FC bowlers to have not had a major injury in junior cricket - there's something in that) due to a technical flaw, his action is fine.

He's already truly frightening anyway!

As for Ponting's wicket, I've always thought he was the most under-rated potential bowler in the side. He really can bowl, moves the ball both ways and can bowl 130km/h+. That's handy and the ball he got Vaughan with wasn't the innocuous ball everyone is making it out to be; the shot wasn't great but it did lift a bit. And after that wicket, he started cutting the ball back into Flintoff early on, sometimes quite a bit. He's definitely handy and if he wasn't batting 3 and captain, he definitely should bowl more.

 

[Mister Wright]

There's nothing wrong with Tait's run-up and follow-through. For his action, it works and not everyone has to charge in like Lee to be quick. Perfect example; Thommo. The quickest bowler in Test history (no, I don't believe Shoaib is quicker based on the speed gun readings for the Pakistani fans. ) virtually jogged to the wicket. His speed came from the whip he generated with his action and Tait is the same. There's very few modifications, based on how his body works, that one could make. He is as he is. Unless he starts getting injured (he's one of the few FC bowlers to have not had a major injury in junior cricket - there's something in that) due to a technical flaw, his action is fine.

He's already truly frightening anyway!

As for Ponting's wicket, I've always thought he was the most under-rated potential bowler in the side. He really can bowl, moves the ball both ways and can bowl 130km/h+. That's handy and the ball he got Vaughan with wasn't the innocuous ball everyone is making it out to be; the shot wasn't great but it did lift a bit. And after that wicket, he started cutting the ball back into Flintoff early on, sometimes quite a bit. He's definitely handy and if he wasn't batting 3 and captain, he definitely should bowl more.

Maybe he should take the new ball instead of Lee. He looked more dangerous in his short spell then Lee did all day.

 

[sqwerty]

I think England have the upper hand, only slightly though. People severely underestimate the value of runs on the board. I can not see the Poms getting less than 350 from here, and they're quite likely to get 400.
Anyway, 400 is a magnificent first innings score. There's no doubt Australia will feel it, if England post 400.

If England get bowled out for 350 there's a very good chance they'll lose the test (assuming it stays dry).
This deck is the best batting track so far this series. Harmison and Flintoff won't be near the handful they have been in previous tests.

Australia are a good chance to make 500 and bowl England out on day 5.

400 is a decent total but will be far from daunting on this deck. Sure runs on the board are runs on the board but there's a big difference between runs on the board in first innings and runs on the board in the second innings.

England will struggle to bowl Australia out twice on this deck

 

[Mister Wright]

If England get bowled out for 350 there's a very good chance they'll lose the test (assuming it stays dry).
This deck is the best batting track so far this series. Harmison and Flintoff won't be near the handful they have been in previous tests.

Australia are a good chance to make 500 and bowl England out on day 5.

400 is a decent total but will be far from daunting on this deck. Sure runs on the board are runs on the board but there's a big difference between runs on the board in first innings and runs on the board in the second innings.

England will struggle to bowl Australia out twice on this deck

If Australia bowl England out on the 5th day it will be a draw, because Australia won't get the opportunity to chase any total they set, unless you're saying that England will get bowled out early on day 5, and Australia chase the total successfully.

 

[howardj]

If England get bowled out for 350 there's a very good chance they'll lose the test (assuming it stays dry).
This deck is the best batting track so far this series. Harmison and Flintoff won't be near the handful they have been in previous tests.

Australia are a good chance to make 500 and bowl England out on day 5.

400 is a decent total but will be far from daunting on this deck. Sure runs on the board are runs on the board but there's a big difference between runs on the board in first innings and runs on the board in the second innings.

England will struggle to bowl Australia out twice on this deck

Mate, people talk about scoring 500 as though it's a walk in the park. Seriously, how many times do teams do that against a very good attack? Australia will have to turn the series on its head to do that. Believe me, 400 is plenty in a big match, if England manage to reach it. Furthermore, if Kaspa can get some assistance from the wicket, and Tait can get it to move through the air for most of the day, then Flintoff, Jones and, to a lesser extent, Harmison, are odds-on to do the same. Finally, how can they bowl England out on Day 5 - by making 700 and only having to bat once? Doubt it.

 

[sqwerty]

Finally, how can they bowl England out on Day 5 - by making 700 and only having to bat once? Doubt it.

Bowl them out for 350, get a 150 lead and bowl them out for 150.
Bowl them out for 350, get a 150 lead, bowl them out for 200, chase 50.

It's not inconceivable.

I'm prepared to bet that at least a couple of Aussie bats will score in the first dig.

 

[howardj]

I think it's drawing a long bow - and totally disregarding what has happened in the series so far - to think that Aust will take 6 for 130, score 500 and bowl the Poms out, on that pitch, for 150 with no McGrath.

 

[Mister Wright]

I think it's drawing a long bow - and totally disregarding what has happened in the series so far - to think that Aust will take 6 for 130, score 500 and bowl the Poms out, on that pitch, for 150 with no McGrath.

Yeah, you're absolutely right. I think people have to realise this England team is not your ordinary England team, they are actually playing consistently well, something I have rarely seen in my lifetime.

Even if one of Australia's batsman were to get a big score, we would need someone else to hang around with him to get a big enough score to only bat once. And we should discount England's ability to fight back in the 2 innings, even if Australia were to get a good enough lead.

 

[sqwerty]

Finally, how can they bowl England out on Day 5 - by making 700 and only having to bat once? Doubt it.

Plus...that England batting lineup is highly overrated. Look at how good the Aussies are making them look with their ordinary fielding and bowling

How many times has Trescothick been dismissed off no balls and how much have they fed him full of a length outside off stump (thinking the new Duke ball is going to swing but it doesn't)
Strauss is showing a bit more now but still isn't much better than we he played 3's for Sydney Uni
Vaughan is hitting his straps admittedly
Bell is too mechanical
Pietersen will hit one down deep mid wicket's throat sooner or later
Flintoff rides his luck
Jones goes ok but never makes many
Giles will get hammered by Lee and Tait
Hoggard will block it for 2 hours at best
Harmison couldn't give a stuff
Jones will have a swing

OVERRATED and only doing the job because Australia have been SO ordinary (and that's got nothing to do with any so-called pressure England may or may not be putting)

I remember watching Australia play 5 years ago when you couldn't believe it if someone put a catch down. This Australian fielding side is dead set pathetic.

 

[Mister Wright]

Plus...that England batting lineup is highly overrated. Look at how good the Aussies are making them look with their ordinary fielding and bowling

How many times has Trescothick been dismissed off no balls and how much have they fed him full of a length outside off stump (thinking the new Duke ball is going to swing but it doesn't)
Strauss is showing a bit more now but still isn't much better than we he played 3's for Sydney Uni
Vaughan is hitting his straps admittedly
Bell is too mechanical
Pietersen will hit one down deep mid wicket's throat sooner or later
Flintoff rides his luck
Jones goes ok but never makes many
Giles will get hammered by Lee and Tait
Hoggard will block it for 2 hours at best
Harmison couldn't give a stuff
Jones will have a swing

OVERRATED and only doing the job because Australia have been SO ordinary (and that's got nothing to do with any so-called pressure England may or may not be putting)

I remember watching Australia play 5 years ago when you couldn't believe it if someone put a catch down. This Australian fielding side is dead set pathetic.

Thing is though. England have the total to build a big score now, even if their players are being dropped and bowled off no balls, that does not change the fact that Pietersen and Flintoff are in now and are more than capable of putting on 100-150 themselves, and the tail can hang around if one of them are going. England could yet get 500. You have to look at the situation as it is atm. And while I agree Australia are slightly ahead, if we don't get a wicket in the first session, we are in a lot of trouble.

 

[sqwerty]

Thing is though. England have the total to build a big score now, even if their players are being dropped and bowled off no balls, that does not change the fact that Pietersen and Flintoff are in now and are more than capable of putting on 100-150 themselves, and the tail can hang around if one of them are going. England could yet get 500. You have to look at the situation as it is atm. And while I agree Australia are slightly ahead, if we don't get a wicket in the first session, we are in a lot of trouble.

I never said that my scenario is definitely going to happen....just that it's not inconceivable.

I can safely say that if Flintoff and Pietersen bat through the first session it will be game over because England will be close to 400 by thenn.

Get one of them before 300 and 350 is not out of the question...provided Australia bowl with discipline.

 

[howardj]

Plus...that England batting lineup is highly overrated. Look at how good the Aussies are making them look with their ordinary fielding and bowling

OVERRATED and only doing the job because Australia have been SO ordinary (and that's got nothing to do with any so-called pressure England may or may not be putting)

I remember watching Australia play 5 years ago when you couldn't believe it if someone put a catch down. This Australian fielding side is dead set pathetic.

With respect, I hardly think England's batting line-up is any more over-rated than Austraila's. I mean, Australia finally come up against a decent attack that is able to sustain pressure, and they capitulate. If they were a great batting line-up they would have put England out of the game in the first innings at both Old Trafford and Edgbaston - two absolute feather-beds. As it was, they didn't even get 400 in either of those innings. As for Austraila's fielding, well....I think they pay little attention to detail, and want to play like millionaires - they're not putting in the practice, but they complain about how over-worked they are.......then they go play County cricket in the off-season!

 

[sqwerty]

If they were a great batting line-up they would have put England out of the game in the first innings at both Old Trafford and Edgbaston - two absolute feather-beds. !

Australia's batting isn't overrated....they just totally underestimated and underprepared for a decent bowling attack.

I'm sure they expected another walk in the park.

The Australian batting lineup, whether or not they've faced decent attacks in the past few years, have been awesome over the last decade.

Many of those guys are still in the side and have probably lost the hunger and aged also. They mightn't be what they were 5 years ago but they're still the best batting lineup in world cricket (India included)

Don't mean to name drop but I was talking to McGrath a month before he left and he was pretty relaxed about knocking England over. I'd say he underestimated them too. But having said that....they haven't got him out yet

I hardly think you can compare the England batting lineup with the Australian lineup (yet) by saying they're no more overrated than Australia's (except of course if you accept that the England lineup isn't as highly rated in the first place)

 

[Mister Wright]

Australia's batting isn't overrated....they just totally underestimated and underprepared for a decent bowling attack.

I'm sure they expected another walk in the park.

The Australian batting lineup, whether or not they've faced decent attacks in the past few years, have been awesome over the last decade.

Many of those guys are still in the side and have probably lost the hunger and aged also. They mightn't be what they were 5 years ago but they're still the best batting lineup in world cricket (India included)

Don't mean to name drop but I was talking to McGrath a month before he left and he was pretty relaxed about knocking England over. I'd say he underestimated them too. But having said that....they haven't got him out yet

Yeah, I forgot McGrath's job in the side is to score runs!

I think there is a bit of truth in both statements. Yes Australian batsman have been blessed by less than test quality bowling attacks which may have made them look better than they are. However, there is also creedence to the other argument that in fact they are all as good as they are rated, its just been a while since they've face top quality bowling so often in the same test match and it is taking them a while to get back their batting rythum.

 

[aussie]

Maybe he should take the new ball instead of Lee. He looked more dangerous in his short spell then Lee did all day.

unfortunately thats true but dont think we will se that happening much in the future

 

[shaka]

400 is probably a "par" score for first innings and they (England) would be bitterly disappointed if they got anything less than 400.

 

[howardj]

I hardly think you can compare the England batting lineup with the Australian lineup (yet) by saying they're no more overrated than Australia's (except of course if you accept that the England lineup isn't as highly rated in the first place)

That's exactly what I mean. Australia are better, but still over-rated.