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**Official** 2004 Natwest Series (Eng, NZL, WI)

Langeveldt

Soutie
Wow.. Bell is getting hard done by..

Which M Powell is it? There are about four and they all look the same...And they all bat right handed don't they?

R Clarke.. Give me a break.. Its a joke that isnt very funny any more...
 

Rich2001

International Captain
Langeveldt said:
Which M Powell is it? There are about four and they all look the same...And they all bat right handed don't they?

Glamorgan's batsman Michael Powell... Apprantly the selectors told Powell that he was very close to selection in the original team as well, I guess the 49 he scored for Wales v England recently helped.
 

_Ed_

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Langeveldt said:
R Clarke.. Give me a break.. Its a joke that isnt very funny any more...
From a NZ point of view its hilarious :p

Wait a tick, we've got Butler.

I appear to have stopped laughing.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Rich2001 said:
Wow slightly surprised no-one has mentioned the two players drafted into the England team as cover for the injuries yet.

For those who haven't actually seen yet... R.Clarke gets back in and a surprise package of M.Powell - So Ian Bell misses out again which might surpise a few after they selectors said he was very close and unlucky to miss out... obviously Warwicks are so desprate to hold onto him for their game v Kent this week :p
i dont understand the point of including rikki clarke here?hes failed in really every ODI hes played, hes clearly been out of form as of late yet, and yet hes been selected over someone who is in better form and hasnt been tested at the intl level just yet. these english selectors baffle me really......
 

Mingster

State Regular
_Ed_ said:
From a NZ point of view its hilarious :p

Wait a tick, we've got Butler.

I appear to have stopped laughing.
Did Butler f**k your sister or something? What's he done to **** you off.

He took a 6-wicket bag in his last test innings, even though it was against the tail, and at 21, and with his potential, no one should write them off.

I'll take Butler over Clarke anyway thanks.
 

Mingster

State Regular
Macka said:
Yeah they keep changing the batting order, just like they did in the tests. MacMillan has so much talent, but he never makes scores against domestic teams.

Fleming is expected to play, he should be feeling better after seeing the Red Hot Chilli Peppers concert instead of playing against Northamptonshire.

Last I heard Vettori was doubtful for the first game. No great loss there. Butler is a huge worry...he just constantly pitches the ball short.

OK, I've been gone for a while and all of a sudden everyone doesn't rate Vettori as an ODI bowler. He was around 17th on the PWC ladder a few months ago and has an RPO pretty close to 4.3. That's pretty good for a ODI spinner.

Butler is a worry, and he won't be needed for the fullstrength team.

What do you mean we change the ODI order? It's always been Fleming, Astle/Papps, Marshall, Styris, McMillan, Cairns and Harris/Oram/McCullum afterwards. Pretty settled lineup to me.
 

Mingster

State Regular
_Ed_ said:
This NZ batting order really is a problem, I see in this game against Northants Chris Harris, a player who has won several games for NZ with the bat in the past, is down at 8. He is in there on 11 with only 4 overs to go, and he needs a while to get himself in before he scores freely, so he is not much use in that position.

I see our top order did quite badly again. A total of only 44 runs between the first 4 batsmen. In contrast, the next 3 (Oram, Cairns, McCullum) have all scored more than that individually and have totalled 154 runs between them.
Harris has not won many games for NZ at batting lately. That's why he's batting below Oram and McCullum. He needs to reinvent himself. He's not going to be given a position at 6 because he has done some good things in the "past". Harris is a pusher, and uses his pads way too much, but has improved lately.

Our top order worked in the warmup game before the Northants.
 

Mingster

State Regular
Macka said:
Agreed, we really have to do something about the batting. Since all our best bowlers are over there (except perhaps Bruce Martin) we have to strengthen our batting.

My personal view is that Craig MacMillan has to go. From memory he has played about 150 ODI macthes, averages about 27, makes a good 40 or 60 every now and then. He just does not win us matches. Whereas Astle, Fleming, and Styris have won us matches recently. Our only other specialist batsman is Hamish Marshall, who is pretty new to the team, but is playing well despite doing virtually nothing at domestic level.

That's it, 4 specialist batsman. Astle and Fleming can be class players at times, Styris has done a great job batting at number 4, where I think he averages about 35. No more of this 'Styris is really a number 5' please. We *really* need more than 4 batsman.

I think Mathew Sinclair should be in the team. He can bat anywhere in the order and has improved his batting and mental approach to no end in my view. He has started to score more consistantly and quickly in recent times, had a solid domestic season, and has been playing well for his club in England.

As for Chris Harris...well if he plays he has to bat infront of Cairns and Oram in the order, he does need time to get himself going, although he has been told to bat in a more aggressive fashion.

Our middle order is strong enough with the likes of Cairns, Harris, Oram, and McCullum. We just need some top order batsman. No more all rounders, no more McCullum being sent in for some quick runs.

To my way of thinking, I'd say Harris has been bracketed with Vettori to start the matches. If Vettori can't play we'll need some more variation in our bowling for sure.
Eh...4 specialist batsmen? Is it just me that can't count?

Papps, Astle, Fleming, Marshall, Styris if you want to stack the top order with specialist batsmen.

No more allrounders? You're a joke. Yet you say you want Cairns, Harris and Oram in there. Hmmmm....good thinking there.

Sinclair. He doesn't deserve it yet. If McMillan fails this series, then fine. And he can't bat anywhere in the order. Bat him at 5, and he will crumble. He either needs to open or 3.
 

Kent

State 12th Man
Mingster said:
Did Butler f**k your sister or something? What's he done to **** you off.

He took a 6-wicket bag in his last test innings, even though it was against the tail, and at 21, and with his potential, no one should write them off.

I'll take Butler over Clarke anyway thanks.
While not quite as aggro as Mingster, I am a bit concerned at the level of derision building up towards Butler. Sure, he's often only 5kph above medium, has a bit of an ego and is often whacked, but he still has a place in the wider scheme of things.

As someone who watches a bit of domestic cricket, Butler is one of the few guys that I can actually squint my eyes and see someone with the raw materials to bowl at international level. With 70% of them (including most of the prolific wicket-takers) I can't even get that far.
 
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Kent

State 12th Man
Mingster said:
OK, I've been gone for a while and all of a sudden everyone doesn't rate Vettori as an ODI bowler. He was around 17th on the PWC ladder a few months ago and has an RPO pretty close to 4.3. That's pretty good for a ODI spinner.
Fair call. With cover for the ball he drags short and a clearer idea of what his role is, Vettori is still a more than useful ODI bowler.
 
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Kent

State 12th Man
The thing I hate about this tri-series is even if we win, NZ's tour is still pretty much a failure. So we beat two ODI sides that haven't made a WC semi-final in 12 years. And?

After going 9-2 against Pak and SA last summer, Bracewell and co. have a lot to lose and not very much to gain when you think about it.

Part of me wishes we could turn this tournament into another 'Black Cap Idol' like we did in Pakistan.... ;)

Taylor tops hit parade again

20 June 2004 19:11

Ross Taylor has staked another compelling claim to Howes Percival Norfolk Alliance innings of the season. Four weeks ago, the rising star 20-year-old New Zealander hit 171 for Norwich Wanderers in their Premier Division game against Downham at Barton Turf, including a dozen sixes and 14 fours. Leaders Great Witchingham felt the full force of Taylor's batting power on Saturday at Walcis Park, where he hammered 126 off 47 balls in 47 minutes, including 14 sixes and half a dozen fours.
 
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Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
Vettori still earn's his place in the ODI side...at least in the ODI's if he's not taking wickets, he can slow the run-rate down..which he usually does.

What a load of rubbish Mingster..I agree with what your trying to say, but the way in which your saying it is very immature.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
The sooner Ross Taylor & Jesse Ryder press their cases for national selection the better.

These boys are aggressive & have no fear, yet they also have a huge amount of skill. We really need that in the test side at the moment.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
I see another NZ'lander..Jaden Hatwell scored a century. When I saw him I thought he wasn't that brilliant so the opposition he's facing in England can't be that great.
 

Neil Pickup

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I can't believe people are reading anything into the Norfolk League!

I also can't believe Michael Powell's been picked... although I suppose they wanted a cover opening batsman and there was little else.

What on earth does Bell have to do?!
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Neil Pickup said:
What on earth does Bell have to do?!
well looking at one of the players who was picked, my guess would be that he should be in terrible form, show no potential and play for surrey......
 

Kent

State 12th Man
Neil Pickup said:
I can't believe people are reading anything into the Norfolk League!
I don't think I really am. It's just a tongue-in-cheek way of showing a young guy we've identified as a real talent is impressing foreigners I think.

The problem is a lot of what Taylor does at home is almost as meaningless. Hamish Marshall probably wishes our pitches were as good for batting as the Norfolk League's seem to be, so people might get off his back about his FC and List A averages.
 

meatspx

U19 Cricketer
Tim said:
I see another NZ'lander..Jaden Hatwell scored a century. When I saw him I thought he wasn't that brilliant so the opposition he's facing in England can't be that great.
He's pretty ordinary. I've troubled him at school-level with my right-arm slow mediums.
 

superkingdave

Hall of Fame Member
I'm a bit worried for England's chances now Flintoff's out of the whole series.

On another note, if Michael Vaughan wins the toss tomorrow, will he bowl first so that the majority of the team can watch the football later on? :)
 

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