ODI Bowlers Poll - discussions

[capt_Luffy]

More Ike he's there because only 3 people decided to all vote him 1st that round, just bad luck

False. I voted for him the previous round as well. And like people like McDermott got voted in the next round and Ajmal in the last.......

 

[sayon basak]

Voting Ajmal and then shitting on FdV might be the most hilarious thing ever.

 

[Line and Length]

Were at the late stages of our voting for a Top 40 ODI bowlers list. I'm re-introducing Bob Willis to my votes. Like Andy Roberts, he played fewer than 100 ODIs but his average (24.60) and his economy (3.28) suggest he would be a worthy inclusion.
Getting votes on the fringe of inclusion are ATG red ball bowlers like Steyn, Imran and Marshall. Their averages wouldn't look out of place (ranging from 25.98 to 26.96) with other late contenders but I feel it would be almost sacrilege to have such names languishing at the bottom of our table. I've counted 5 players who have had votes who have better averages and others that fit in that range.

 

[Qlder]

It's a pity Len Pascoe didn't play more ODI's. In only 28 innings he took 53 wkts @ 20.11 with SR of 29.5, econ of 4.07 and 1.89 wkts per inning

Only Starc and Shami have higher wpi (both with 1.92), while only Garner has a better average

 

[Line and Length]

It's a pity Len Pascoe didn't play more ODI's. In only 28 innings he took 53 wkts @ 20.11 with SR of 29.5, econ of 4.07 and 1.89 wkts per inning

Only Starc and Shami have higher wpi (both with 1.92), while only Garner has a better average

This is a good point. It would appear that Andy Roberts was voted in relatively lowly because of relatively few (56) games. His average (20.36) is one of the more impressive figures. Likewise, Bob Willis has been totally overlooked (apart from my votes) despite averaging 24.60 and having a wonderful economy rate of 3.28 in his 64 games.
I realise this pair played in an early ODI era where low economy rates were common and team scores were, by and large, lower.
Nonetheless, I find it hard to reconcile Kumble and Vettori receiving multiple votes when their stats (averages over 30 and SR over 40)would look out of place when viewed alongside those already voted in and having players like Hogg, Gillespie, Gough, Imran, Marshall and Willis (all averaging in the 24-27 range) waiting in the wings. Of these 6, only Imran, Marshall and Willis have SRs over 40 but both of ERs under 4.
Recently added to the mix is Matt Henry (ave 24.85 with a SR of 28.79). Current players tend to be overlooked as voters often like to view entire careers.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

This is a good point. It would appear that Andy Roberts was voted in relatively lowly because of relatively few (56) games. His average (20.36) is one of the more impressive figures. Likewise, Bob Willis has been totally overlooked (apart from my votes) despite averaging 24.60 and having a wonderful economy rate of 3.28 in his 64 games.
I realise this pair played in an early ODI era where low economy rates were common and team scores were, by and large, lower.
Nonetheless, I find it hard to reconcile Kumble and Vettori receiving multiple votes when their stats (averages over 30 and SR over 40)would look out of place when viewed alongside those already voted in and having players like Hogg, Gillespie, Gough, Imran, Marshall and Willis (all averaging in the 24-27 range) waiting in the wings. Of these 6, only Imran, Marshall and Willis have SRs over 40 but both of ERs under 4.
Recently added to the mix is Matt Henry (ave 24.85 with a SR of 28.79). Current players tend to be overlooked as voters often like to view entire careers.

Vettori and Kumble bowled in the middle overs when fewer wickets are taken and batting teams are looking to milk singles. Hence averages and strike rates are affected. New ball bowlers can take more wickets up front with attacking fields and still get wickets if bowling pies at "the death" as batsmen take more risks.

 

[Line and Length]

Vettori and Kumble bowled in the middle overs when fewer wickets are taken and batting teams are looking to milk singles. Hence averages and strike rates are affected. New ball bowlers can take more wickets up front with attacking fields and still get wickets if bowling pies at "the death" as batsmen take more risks.

This is a fair analysis. However, we already have spinners voted "in" whose credentials (stats) stand up to scrutiny. Brad Hogg also has far better figures,

 

[capt_Luffy]

This is a fair analysis. However, we already have spinners voted "in" whose credentials (stats) stand up to scrutiny. Brad Hogg also has far better figures,

Yeah, but there were also some like Ajmal and Mendis tbh.

 

[ankitj]

Kumble in this list will be a travesty

 

[Line and Length]

Our Top 40 (41) Poll is complete. It might be interesting to contemplate the factors (Average, SR, EC, Total wickets) that might have influenced our voting. Here is a table the Top 10 in each factor plus the actual Top 10 as voted.

Average	Strike Rate	Economy Rate	Total Wickets	As Voted
J.Garner 18.85	M.Shami 25.68	J.Garner 3.10	M.Muralitharan 534	J.Garner
A.Roberts 20.36	M.Starc 26.69	B.Willis 3.28	Wasim Akram 502	G.McGrath
D.Lillee 20.83	A.Mendis 27.33	R.Hadlee 3.31	Waqar Younis 416	Wasim Akram
S.Bond 20.88	Rashid Khan 28.69	M.Holding 3.38	C.Vaas 400	M.Muralitharan
Rashid Klhan 20.97	S.Bond 29.22	A.Roberts 3.40	S.Pollock 393	R.Hadlee
M.Holding 21.37	T.Boult 29.29	C.Ambrose 3.48	G.McGrath 381	S.Pollock
R.Hadlee 21.56	B.Lee 29.43	D.Lillee 3.58	B.Lee 380	Saqlain Mushtaq
Saqlain Mushtaq 21.79	Saqlain Mushtaq 30.45	F.de Villiers 3.58	L.Malinga 338	M.Starc
A.Donald 21.79	Waqar Younis 30.52	E.Chatfield 3.58	S.Warne 293	J.Bumrah
A.Mendis 21.87	M.Morkel 30.64	S.Pollock 3.68	Saqlain Mushtaq 288	C.Ambrose

Some observations.
Economy rate is obviously related to eras of ODI. Our ratings here is dominated by players from an early era.
The total wickets list contributed 5 places in the Top 10. 4 came from the economy rate, 3 from the best averages and 2 from strike rate list.
Saqlain Mushtaq featured in 3 of the 4 lists. Should he have polled higher?
Of those in the Top 10, only Bumrah fails to rate in the Top 10 of any aspect. Overrated?
Of those appearing on more than one of the aspect lists, Mendis is ranked at 34 in our poll. Underrated?
The next lowest in the polls with two appearances is Rashid Khan placed at 22 and earlier discussions reveal the valid reasoning behind this.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Our Top 40 (41) Poll is complete. It might be interesting to contemplate the factors (Average, SR, EC, Total wickets) that might have influenced our voting. Here is a table the Top 10 in each factor plus the actual Top 10 as voted.

Average	Strike Rate	Economy Rate	Total Wickets	As Voted
J.Garner 18.85	M.Shami 25.68	J.Garner 3.10	M.Muralitharan 534	J.Garner
A.Roberts 20.36	M.Starc 26.69	B.Willis 3.28	Wasim Akram 502	G.McGrath
D.Lillee 20.83	A.Mendis 27.33	R.Hadlee 3.31	Waqar Younis 416	Wasim Akram
S.Bond 20.88	Rashid Khan 28.69	M.Holding 3.38	C.Vaas 400	M.Muralitharan
Rashid Klhan 20.97	S.Bond 29.22	A.Roberts 3.40	S.Pollock 393	R.Hadlee
M.Holding 21.37	T.Boult 29.29	C.Ambrose 3.48	G.McGrath 381	S.Pollock
R.Hadlee 21.56	B.Lee 29.43	D.Lillee 3.58	B.Lee 380	Saqlain Mushtaq
Saqlain Mushtaq 21.79	Saqlain Mushtaq 30.45	F.de Villiers 3.58	L.Malinga 338	M.Starc
A.Donald 21.79	Waqar Younis 30.52	E.Chatfield 3.58	S.Warne 293	J.Bumrah
A.Mendis 21.87	M.Morkel 30.64	S.Pollock 3.68	Saqlain Mushtaq 288	C.Ambrose

Some observations.
Economy rate is obviously related to eras of ODI. Our ratings here is dominated by players from an early era.
The total wickets list contributed 5 places in the Top 10. 4 came from the economy rate, 3 from the best averages and 2 from strike rate list.
Saqlain Mushtaq featured in 3 of the 4 lists. Should he have polled higher?
Of those in the Top 10, only Bumrah fails to rate in the Top 10 of any aspect. Overrated?
Of those appearing on more than one of the aspect lists, Mendis is ranked at 34 in our poll. Underrated?
The next lowest in the polls with two appearances is Rashid Khan placed at 22 and earlier discussions reveal the valid reasoning behind this.

I am one of the bigger Saqlain fans and I think his ranking at top 7 is really fine. Had a rather short career, so don't think could have gone much higher.
I think on adjusting them for Era Bumrah definitely makes the Eco and might made the Average List as well.
Mendis is a special case. He was a mystery, and then got find out and swiftly discarded soon. Good bowler, but that's a unique setback.