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NZ 1st test side

Kent

State 12th Man
How close am I do you reckon?

Richardson
Vincent
Fleming
Styris
McMillan
Cairns
Oram
Hart
Vettori
Tuffey
Butler
12th: McIntosh (Marshall for fielding?)

Tuffey
Butler
Cairns
Oram
Vettori
Styris

I'm not sure about Cairns as a 1st change option, or if he'll even play. Is he playing for Canterbury this week?

I know Bracewell speaks glowingly of Butler, so I'd be more surprised if he's omitted rather than if he's selected. What I've read seems to suggest Hart is a given as keeper.
 

Kent

State 12th Man
Whoops! I see you've been talking about this in another thread.

I guess this is a slightly different topic, being who you think *will* be picked.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah looks alright to me, but I don't like both Oram & Cairns playing.

Oram is pretty useless against quality fast bowling & if Sami & Shoaib are on form, I don't think he'll hang around for very long...they'd be better off trying Jeff Wilson even.

I'd like to see this side:

Richardson
Vincent
Fleming
Styris
McMillan
Cairns
Wilson
Hart
Vettori
Tuffey
Butler

Back-up bowler Mason...and the 2 outside batsmen McIntosh & Marshall.
The problem is that its only a 2 test series, so if anyone fails in the 1st test then there's not much chance they'll be dropped for the 2nd..UNLESS Bracewell is extremely harsh.

It would be very hard to ignore McIntosh at the moment...he's pretty much shown that 5 years at domestic level is the right way to go...he started as a 19 year old & now he's 24 & scoring a truckload of runs. He's more than ready to have a go at test level..whether he can perform at test level, though is another matter.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
The other guy who might get a look in is Andre Adams...he played extremely well against N.D from the reports I heard & saw.

NZ need to liven their attack up a little & he is capable of bowling mid 140's at times.
 

THE MINGSTER

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Yeah, I went to the Auckland game today, and Adams was certainly bowling at a good clip. Hurried the batsmen up, however bowled too short at times when the overcast conditions were conductive to swing.

I want us to play 6 batsmen, and I want Cairns to play at 7, but with his bowling still not up to scratch he will have to play at 6 for the time being.

Wilson is probably around the same pace as Adams now, and bowled extremely well against the Auckland top order of Richardson, Vincent, Horne, McIntosh and Nicol.

Richardson
Vincent
Fleming
McMillan
Styris
Cairns
Hart
Wilson/Adams/Oram
Vettori
Tuffey
Butler


Out of those 3 fighting for that spot, Wilson is the more attacking and more likely to expose the conditions.

I talked to him today and he said his injury was just a niggle and would be available for the next game.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
That lineup looks ok but 6 & 7 could be a problem...we don't really know how Cairns will bat like in tests & Hart while he is gutsy, doesn't always put too many runs on the board, so NZ seem to want the batting all-rounder at 7 to cover that up.

I think they've got to send a message to the top 6 at least that there's really only a keeper & 4 bowlers after you, so don't mess up..rather than giving them the comfort of 2 or 3 all-rounders.

The only players I can see under alot of scrutiny in the 1st test are Vincent & Cairns. I think the others will be safe for the 2nd test regardless, unless there are injuries of course.
If Vincent fails in both innings, then McIntosh may get a chance & if Cairns fails to bat well & send down a few overs then he may also miss out.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
I've been watching another young guy Jordan Sheed who plays for Otago.

When I played in a Nelson tournament a few years ago, Sheed was playing for Otago Boys High & he scored quite a few runs. But he's played for Otago for about 2 years now & can't buy a run.

I thought Jamie How was going to be a one hit wonder, but he's 97* against N.D so maybe he can start putting some consistent runs up on the board, because technically from what I saw of him..he is very good when he gets his eye in.
 

THE MINGSTER

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Yes I agree with you Tim.

But if you don't play Cairns at 6, and you play him at 7 he would be the first change bowler which he isn't he suited now.

I personally don't think Cairns is upto Tests yet.

OK here is my side....

Richardson
Vincent
McIntosh/Marshall
Fleming
McMillan
Styris
Oram/Wilson/Adams
Hart
Vettori
Tuffey
Butler


Mind you Butler go 51* today! :O
 

THE MINGSTER

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Tim said:
I've been watching another young guy Jordan Sheed who plays for Otago.

When I played in a Nelson tournament a few years ago, Sheed was playing for Otago Boys High & he scored quite a few runs. But he's played for Otago for about 2 years now & can't buy a run.

I thought Jamie How was going to be a one hit wonder, but he's 97* against N.D so maybe he can start putting some consistent runs up on the board, because technically from what I saw of him..he is very good when he gets his eye in.
Jesse Ryder was in good nick as well I heard.

All I can say is that the NZ 'A' side will be packed will talent.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
That sides looks alright...I don't know if Fleming would surrender #3 though.

If NZ were to play Adams, he really isn't a #7...maybe a #8 at best unless he's improved his defence over the winter.
He is more likely however of at least launching an attack at Shoaib, whereas Jacob Oram seems to go into his shell & then eventually get cleaned up.

Wilson is probably the big outside chance for the 1st test...I don't think he could bat any higher than #7 at this stage, but whatever sport he plays it seems he can slot in anywhere & still do good at it.
I think he could even rise above what he's currently playing like for Otago, he's just that type of player.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
Ryder got 49 today though, but commited a huge crime by being stumped!?..still got a bit to learn I think.
He has had a reasonable start this season, but If he was in line to play for NZ in the tests it's probably over now that McIntosh has knocked up that century.

I was listening to Jeremy Coney today..he said he heard Bracewell say that he is looking for batsmen who can score centuries in 1 session. Well if thats the case then Richardson & McIntosh won't last long...I think if he's going along the lines of that, you should still need 2 guys there who can bat a whole day or even more.

I agree that NZ 'A' will be good..especially in the batting department.
When you look at Nicol, Ryder, Broom, Fulton, McIntosh, Taylor, Marshall & maybe even his brother James...batting will be at its strongest in years.
Bowling may still be a problem..I think we should be looking at selecting a few guys who can really send the ball down quickly rather than just picking the medium pacers as per usual.
But who? Joey Yovich & Richard Sherlock (who I have yet to see) are the only ones who come to mind.
 

THE MINGSTER

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Tim said:
That sides looks alright...I don't know if Fleming would surrender #3 though.

If NZ were to play Adams, he really isn't a #7...maybe a #8 at best unless he's improved his defence over the winter.
He is more likely however of at least launching an attack at Shoaib, whereas Jacob Oram seems to go into his shell & then eventually get cleaned up.

Wilson is probably the big outside chance for the 1st test...I don't think he could bat any higher than #7 at this stage, but whatever sport he plays it seems he can slot in anywhere & still do good at it.
I think he could even rise above what he's currently playing like for Otago, he's just that type of player.
You and I are fans of playing specialists and why are you suddenly taking Oram, Wilson and Adams' batting ability into question mate!

I don't care if they are tailenders and I don't care if they are wonderful batsmen, they are selected as bowlers and need to bowl well. The batters will do their job.

Yes with Hart there the batting is thin, and I have a feeling Bracewell will blood McCullum in this test match.

To me Wilson and Adams are better bowlers than Oram.
 

THE MINGSTER

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Tim said:
I was listening to Jeremy Coney today..he said he heard Bracewell say that he is looking for batsmen who can score centuries in 1 session. Well if thats the case then Richardson & McIntosh won't last long...I think if he's going along the lines of that, you should still need 2 guys there who can bat a whole day
No no no no mate.

He said he is not looking for batsmen who can score centuries in one session.

It's in the paper as well.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
I don't know if Oram will last long under Bracewell.

I think Bracewell may well tell Oram, either starting use his size to his advantage or go back to FC Cricket.
Oram should be able to belt alot of bowlers out of the park & technically he seems to be ok..but he goes into his shell & is too worried about playing the big shots.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
Oh ok, well im pretty sure I heard Coney say the opposite, but then again im not 100% sure so i'll believe that he said what the papers have said then.
 

THE MINGSTER

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Tim said:
I don't know if Oram will last long under Bracewell.

I think Bracewell may well tell Oram, either starting use his size to his advantage or go back to FC Cricket.
Oram should be able to belt alot of bowlers out of the park & technically he seems to be ok..but he goes into his shell & is too worried about playing the big shots.
Well Oram actually has the best bowling economy rates for the Pak series currently. I agree, I think he could get a few more km's in his bowling and he would be a real threat.

Oram can hit the big shots, but has been told he hold them back.

You have to say he hasn't had the perfect chances lately to really build an innings.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
What good is Oram if he can't play some shots? I don't really think he knows how to build an innings with singles & a sprinkling of boundaries.

I agree, that he didn't get me chances in the ODI's because NZ were pretty much well out of the game when he came into bat..but he at least needed to show some stickability rather than just getting out tamely.
 

THE MINGSTER

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Tim said:
What good is Oram if he can't play some shots? I don't really think he knows how to build an innings with singles & a sprinkling of boundaries.

I agree, that he didn't get me chances in the ODI's because NZ were pretty much well out of the game when he came into bat..but he at least needed to show some stickability rather than just getting out tamely.
His recent 81 was the only chance he got to build an innings and he suceeded.
 

meatspx

U19 Cricketer
I think some people on this forum have been bagging Oram unfairly. His batting can be extremely good, his only weakness is that he can play too defensively. If Bracewell can encourage him to have a more positive mindset then that problem will be solved, and anyway his defensive innings have helped us in the test matches against India last year.

I'm not sure about Wilson........Every man and his dog can get wickets in NZ FC. If Wilson is not another medium-fast bowler and actually has some pace (135km +), then he can do well in international cricket.
 

anzac

International Debutant
Here's how I see it at the moment....

Richardson
Vincent
Fleming
Styris
Marshall
McMillan
Oram
Hart
Vettori
Tuffey
Butler

Jones & McIntosh as batting cover, with Wilson & Adams as bowling cover.

Vincent's latter form in the Indian Tests was good and IMO he was subject to some unlucky decisions - even going into the TVS Cup. His current form in the domestic season gives the selectors no reason to drop him.

With Astle's spot open I would initially slot his replacement straight in to no5 - not high enough to have to build the innings, yet still have some batting left to come to build partnerships if they have to try and save the innings.

Marshall gets the nod ahead of Jones as Jones is more of a specialist opener in the same mould as Richardson. He also gets the nod ahead of McIntosh as Marshall has current international form against the same team (even if in ODIs), whereas McIntosh has yet to make his debut. Finally Marshall was originally selected for Test cricket & made 40no in RSA in his Test debut 3 years ago as a 20 yr old, against an attack as good as the Pakistani's.

Oram gets the 'allrounder' position to himself. He claims to be more of a batting allrounder so lets see him given the opportunity do it. He has big scores to his bat, including a ton in a warm up game on the Indian tour. Batting at 7 he has enough batting to follow to show his capabilities.

He needs to play his natural game which IMO is more aggressive than his role lower down the order, as he seems to go into his shell when required to play defensively. He is usually more comfortable against seam bowling and knows he does not need to score runs off Ahktar & Sami - just keep his wicket intact & take the odd single that the different fielding requirements will allow. He needs to use his height v the spinners to break up their length, then he can attack them off their line as they will not get the same levels of assistance as they did on the sub continent.

IMO his development into a genuine allrounder has been hampered to a degree by Cairns' continued on / off selections & reputation as 'the' allrounder in the team. Personally I think Oram has contributed more to the team with the ball, and about on a par with the bat in the last 18 months or so. If he does not make runs this series then he can just be considered for his bowling as the 3rd seamer in the side, and Styris & Astle will cover the 'allrounder' positions. Oram then takes his chances along with the likes of Butler, Wilson, Adams, Cairns etc when Bond returns.

Butler gets the nod to share the new ball based upon his display in the 2nd Test v India. He had real pace in the 1st innings, and more control when he slowed it down for the 2nd when bowling in the high 130s.

Wilson & Adams get the nod as bowling cover because they are the form bowlers at this stage of the season, and both can hold their own with the bat.

Cairns does not get a look because he has no form with the ball & Styris can provide a 5th bowling option as he did in India. Furthermore there are form specialist batsmen available as cover for Astle so his batting (which has not been a factor in Test cricket for some time) is not required. Lastly with most of the established team available Cairn's experience is no longer a consideration, unlike the recent ODI series.

Do not get me wrong I am not anti Cairns, as fully fit & performing with bat & ball he still has a lot to offer world cricket in both forms of the game, let alone NZ cricket. I am just anti his continued selection when he is not 100% or is out of form with the ball, as I do not think he is consistant enough with the bat to continue to hold out specialist batting options such as Marshall & Co anymore. EG Styris is a more consistant batsman & also out performs him with the ball.

The rest pick themselves.

If anyone fails in the first Test I agree that we would be unlikely to see any changes for the 2nd Test unless thru injury. However there could be some changes ahead of the 1st Test for the RSA series.

8D
 

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