No Ashes for India and Pakistan

[Neil Pickup]

What about the numbers before 488/3 became 490 all out...

Seven wickets, 23 runs - makes it 2768 runs, 29 wickets - 95.44 (!)

 

[Pratters]

....

If this is test cricket, we dont want any more of it !

Sorry but no one is saying the current series has been interesting and we all know it has favoured the batsmen immensely.

 

[SJS]

Some sub continental friends with their usual defense mechanisms are jumping to the conclusion that this is about ALL Indo Pak cricket.

NO ITS NOT !!

Its only about these two test matches AND the kind of negative/defensive thinking that leads to such matches.

The Ashes Obituary (the original one) was a pained Englisg hearts anguish at one particular loss by England and not against the entire English cricket before that. This, similarly, is just the response of an anguished sub continental cricket lovers to what has been a poor advertisement for sub continental cricket.

I know tthere are many here from india who think I need to take a more "pro-India' stance and in this case it is a 'pro-subcontinent' stance.

Let me tell you my friends, I am second to none for my devotion to Indian cricket first and foremost and sub continental cricket after thjat but my emotions are not pray to mindless defense of what goes wrong.

When I criticise what is wrong with our cricket I do so because I am proud of our cricket and I am self confident enough to state the facts. To deny the fact is to display a weakness that needs to be covered by misplaced bravado.

The sub continent produces fantastic and by far the most naturally gifted and talented cricketers in the world. I am the first to recognise that and am proud of it. But if we are to make that talent count, we will have to take our heads out of the sand and face our mistakes because that is the first pre-requisite for rectifying them.

 

[Neil Pickup]

The sub continent produces fantastic and some of the most naturally gifted and talented cricketers in the world. I am the first to recognise that and am proud of it. But if we are to make that talent count, we will have to take our heads out of the sand and face our mistakes because that is the first pre-requisite for rectifying them.

One little change and I'm agreeing with you.

 

[SJS]

This cannot be called a death of Ind-Pak .

I used the words death of Indo-Pak cricket because, just in case you didnt notice, this is a take off from the original obituary from which the Ashes originated. As you can see it starts with "In affectionate remembrance of English cricket which died....."

English cricket did not die then just as Indo-Pak cricket is not going to die with this test

 

[SJS]

One little change and I'm agreeing with you.

I added that on the second reading not wanting to get into an argument with non-sub-continental fans who would say we dont have a monopoly on talemnt in the sub-continent but then left it out not wanting to dilute the message.

I suppose you cant win either way

 

[Pratters]

It is not about defending India or the subcontinent SJS. I detest such generalisations.

India and Pakistan though haven't been playing a lot of negative cricket though. The Pakistan-England series was hardly boring. India is playing positive cricket over all too.

In the current series regardless of the pitch, the two countries have played positive cricket. The only thing which can be questioned is why Pakistan did not declare today when they could have.

I will not defend the series as I expected much more from it after two tests.

Your first sentence and vast generalisations in the post, however, is derogatory to the subcontinental/Indian fans - not some thing I expect generally from you.

 

[no1_gangsta_786]

Pakistan did not declare for a very good reason. To keep their bowlers fresh for the third test and not to get any injuries to our fast bowlers.

 

[TIF]

I used the words death of Indo-Pak cricket because, just in case you didnt notice, this is a take off from the original obituary from which the Ashes originated. As you can see it starts with "In affectionate remembrance of English cricket which died....."

English cricket did not die then just as Indo-Pak cricket is not going to die with this test

I am starting to understand your point. You mean "death" in the sense of matches "not being interesting".

It is not necessary that a draw is always "a boring draw". There have been lots of exciting draws in test cricket and they will continue to happen. In this series, bad-light took off most of the 1st test and allowed India to bat only around 80 overs or so in the last 3.5 days India had to bat, so that was going to be a draw anyway.

In the 2nd test, after day 3 ended, many diehard Indian fans said that India can win this test by getting closer to the Pakistan total, bowling Pakistan out quickly in the 2nd innings as they are 1 or 2 batsmen short and knocking off the runs required quickly in the time left.

In the same way, many diehard Pakistan fans said that Pakistan can win this test after the 3rd day, by taking the remaining 5 Indian wickets quickly without allowing India to add too many runs and then scoring runs quickly with players like Afridi, Akmal and co. attacking and setting India a 450+ target in just over a day. And then, by bowling Indian out quickly in the 4th innings.

The Pakistan fans could have had another say in the diehard Indian fans words, that if India can bowl Pakistan out cheaply, then so can Pakistan bowl India out cheaply.

So, if these things said by many diehard Indian and Pakistani fan were to be believed, this test was as interesting as it could get upto the time the 1st innings was going on. It was the Yousuf-Younis partnership on the 4th which finally killed the slight chances we had of getting a result only if these words said by diehard Indian and Pakistani fans were to be believed.

I would say that this 2nd test ended as an exciting draw and not as a boring draw.

 

[SJS]

I am starting to understand your point. You mean "death" in the sense of matches "not being interesting".

Yes.

For me an Indo-Pak encounter is something that really excites and one is hanging onto every single development on the field. I watched my first match (Indo-Pak) 45 years ago as Mehmood Hussain bounced and injured Indian skipper Nari Contractor. Since then these matches have meant nothing but unadulterated excitement.

There were days when both our sides did not defeat anyone in the world, NZLand excepted and holding on to a draw against Pakistan was good enough since a loss meant national disgrace.

Fortunately, one thought, we had put those years behind us and were confident enough freom our exploits around the world to take the chances required to make a bid to win.

We both have the class to do so. On our day both our sides can beat each other. Thus Indo-Pak encounters now should make for excitement from the result point of view also not just from not losing.

It is with this in mind that I was expressing my disappointment.
Tell me, what is offensive about the thread starter for either Indian or Pakistani fans ?

It is just a spoof on the original obituary using similar words to express my disappointment. Rest of my posts in this thread are just to answer those Indians or Pakistanis who seem to think that somehow this(the thread starter) is inappropriate.
I am surprised. Why ?

Were these two matches exciting ? If you say no well we agree and thats the end of it.

If you think they WERE exciting (in totaility), then I am afraid we have a disagreement and lets leave it at that.

I can assure you just one thing, if test matches continue like this, we will kill them.

As far as the Ashes series are concerned, I am not comparing the Indo-Pak series of the past with the Ashes series of the past. They, the Ashes, have come up only because of the original Ashes and the fact that the last Ahes series revived the dead one-sided encounters between them and this one. so far, is killing the excitement of the earlier series.

 

[SJS]

Some one agrees , thank God

- to call it a Test match is to spit on the concept -

This hasn't been a contest, it's been akin to a boxing bout where one man fights blindfolded and handcuffed.

reducing what was supposed to be an engrossing spectacle to an utter farce.

a series that has thus far failed miserably to live up to its billing.

The last three series between these sides were so enthralling and packed with incident that one almost forgot the many snore draws that had gone before. By going back to those bad old days, when avoiding defeat was the name of the game, both the rivalry and the health of the world game are being jeopardised.

The Ashes gave Test cricket a massive blood transfusion, but instead of building on that, the pitches at Lahore and Faisalabad have been nothing more than an effort to slit its throat and slice open its veins

Dileep Premachandran - cricinfo​

 

[Pratters]

You haven't got the point I am making SJS.

People generally agree the series has been boring. I doubt if a lot of people believe otherwise. And your stating mass generalisations about subcontinental fans here is the thing I find insulting to them for no wrong of theirs.

A lot of over reaction on the fans and the tests despite them being they were - I must say. The subcontinent cicket has a lot more ill affecting it than the ills seen due to pitch prepatation witnessed here.

 

[TIF]

SJS, If you look into these series as a pessimist or as a non-passionate Indian/Pakistani fan, you would see this series as a boring series, but then if you are to look this series the way a diehard Indian/Pakistani fan has looked, the 2nd test was as exciting as India-Pakistan cricket has been since it was revived. There was lots to play for other than winning. It was also to gain the psychological edge over the opposition. Also, It was a battle between the under-rated Indian bowling attack and the Pakistan bowling attack as to who has the better bowling.

This series hasnt been that bad and boring as you and Dileep Premanchandran have said in that article.

 

[SJS]

This series hasnt been that bad and boring as you and Dileep Premanchandran have said in that article.

We have a disagreement so lets leave it at that

 

[SJS]

28.3 % of all Ashes tests have ended in draws.

65.5% of all India Pak test matches have ended as draws.

Yes in the proces batsmen on both sides have made some fantastic scores. If this constitutes good cricket and if Zaheer scoring zillion runs against Gavaskar's mere billions is what constitutes great cricket, I am afraid I am a different kind of cricket fan.

If the highest number of sixes ever in a test match (Faisalabad 2006) makes this a great match to watch, I am a different type of a cricket fan.

If a contest means massacre of bowlers of both sides but a contest between whose bones get chewed slightly less is a fascinating one to watch, I am a different type of a cricket fan

A test match is so called because it "tests' the players abilities to the extreme. If all batsmen are going to say, its the best and easiest track to bat on they have ever seen then I do not see how they were tested in this 'test' match.

 

[Neil Pickup]

SJS, If you look into these series as a pessimist or as a non-passionate Indian/Pakistani fan, you would see this series as a boring series, but then if you are to look this series the way a diehard Indian/Pakistani fan has looked, the 2nd test was as exciting as India-Pakistan cricket has been since it was revived. There was lots to play for other than winning. It was also to gain the psychological edge over the opposition. Also, It was a battle between the under-rated Indian bowling attack and the Pakistan bowling attack as to who has the better bowling.

This series hasnt been that bad and boring as you and Dileep Premanchandran have said in that article.

"... if you look at this mangled, twisted, burning wreck of a road traffic accident from this particular angle, at a bearing of 078.346 degrees and an elevation of 13.744, then the patterns formed between the chemical fumes and gas clouds interact beautifully with the slowly spilling kerosene to form a landscape scenery worthy of Constable ..."

 

[sheerindianspeed]

Gutless Inzi and Bob are responsible for a dull drawn series.

Make Inzi Australian team captain and Bob English team skipper, and u will see how booring Ashes will become.

 

[Sanz]

As Sehwag Said after the first test, If this is what we want for a series, then we are better off without playing. Let's go back to 90s where we didn't play test cricket much, but when we did play on one occasion, it was a series for gods, one of the best I watched.

Current one takes the cake for being the worst India-pak series ever.

 

[adharcric]

As Sehwag Said after the first test, If this is what we want for a series, then we are better off without playing. Let's go back to 90s where we didn't play test cricket much, but when we did play on one occasion, it was a series for gods, one of the best I watched.

Current one takes the cake for being the worst India-pak series ever.

seriously, shame on PCB, Inzy, Woolmer or whoever is responsible for this crap ... although I probably enjoyed 6 out of 10 days so far in this series (not the younis/yousuf show in lahore, not the two rain-outs, and not day 5 at faisalabad)

 

[SJS]

seriously, shame on PCB, Inzy, Woolmer or whoever is responsible for this crap ... although I probably enjoyed 6 out of 10 days so far in this series (not the younis/yousuf show in lahore, not the two rain-outs, and not day 5 at faisalabad)

I enjoyed every ball that Shoaib bowled. There were those where he had the batsmen ducking at the last moment, there were those that were beautifully dropped by Dravid dead on his feet from right in front of his nose and there were those that Dhoni hammered to all corners of the ground.

That was a contest. It was skills of top order ranged against fast and furious bowling and it was a feast for the eyes.

Other than that, for a brief time, I enjoyed what I thought was history in the making. In a meaningless test, a new world record would have been at least something but without that additional four runs, the 410 that went before were not that meaningful for me after it became clear that the game was going no where.

Maybe they would have been better off playing a limited over game over five days. A 200 overs per side game. Maybe that would have made it enjoyable. Maybe