No Ashes for India and Pakistan

[Deja moo]

Exactly. Just because Imran made a politically charged statement doesn't make him a politician. Botham making a 'convict' statement doesn't makes ashes a 'Master-convict' rivalry.

Thanks for arguing my point. I hope I dont have to explain it again.

So I guess this makes your claims of Ind-Pak cricket being all about jingoism (or are you in the bhai bhai mode now?) hollow

 

[Sanz]

Could it be because it gives him great pleasure when India beats Pakistan ? And theres also the small point why he cannot make a similar statement against another country for one reason.. India havent beaten any other major nation 4 times in World cups while he has being playing He can't claim otherwise, can he?

Are you playing the 'I am ignorant' game again or you really dont know why SRT made that statement ? Here is a hint for, two years(before the WC) every little tom (from Musharraf to Akram) in Pakistan claimed that India didn't want to play Pak because it was scared of losing. It clearly incited the players and made them mad....hope you recollect that.

Whole world watching, magical moment for his country = publicity = mucho funding for hospital. He doesnt have to don khadi for it to be more apparent.

Whole World ?? 12 nations dont make whole world. Beside I dont understand how it makes his statement a political one especially when this hospital is strictly charitable and perhaps the only charitable cancer hospital in South Asia. I dont understand how people can criticize him for that. Lastly Khadi is not popular in Pakistan..just incase you didn't know..not that it comes any cheap now a days.

So, it was jingoism, but it was also a bhai bhai thing, huh? These subcontinentals can't make up their minds, can they ? And Sanz, you're forgetting the Television audience again

You cant make up your mind or perhaps it is a deliberate attempt. Here is the difference :-

India Pakistan playing 3 times in last 3 years = Due to Peace moves

India Pakistan fan following = Due to Jingoism.

As for Television audience, do you have any statistical data to prove all that or just that some of your friends miss school on all five days during tests (remember C_C will argue that it is much dificult to do that in India for 5 days)

Thats the problem in your reasoning. You mention this last Ind-Pak series with its dead pitches, but fail to mention Bodyline, assuming that Ashes cricket has been hunky dory all along. And you also assume that a rivalry once created, stays that way no matter what. It doesn't. Tradition may stay, but rivalry needs the competition to stay alive. and the Ashes has a lot of ground to regain before one is assured that the rivalry has resumed.

I though we already saw one of the best competitive series few months ago..may be you missed. Ind-Pak have missed 25 years in last 50 years..they need to start playing regularly before a cricket rivalry is born else it will remain a Jingoistic rivalry. Body Line was cricket, flat pitches aren't.

Of course they don't, Pakistan have always been a better One day side than India. Well, not as bad as England suffering 8 consecutive Ashes losses to Australia, but bad nevertheless.

and now I can safely say that you have not watched cricket for long. When did you start following cricket, 2000 ?? .Hell I think India-Pak Rivalry is much bigger in ODIs than it is in Test cricket. An Ind-Pak ODI cricket match has more competition than an Ind-Pak test match...

 

[Deja moo]

Are you playing the 'I am ignorant' game again or you really dont know why SRT made that statement ? Here is a hint for, two years(before the WC) every little tom (from Musharraf to Akram) in Pakistan claimed that India didn't want to play Pak because it was scared of losing. It clearly incited the players and made them mad....hope you recollect that.

what do you hope to prove with this ? Lets see..someone claims India hasnt played Pakistan because they are scared of losing to them. Sachin says it isn't so, and cites their WC record as proof. Now, you were saying ?

Whole World ?? 12 nations dont make whole world. Beside I dont understand how it makes his statement a political one especially when this hospital is strictly charitable and perhaps the only charitable cancer hospital in South Asia. I dont understand how people can criticize him for that. Lastly Khadi is not popular in Pakistan..just incase you didn't know..not that it comes any cheap now a days.

It proves he doesnt shy away from using cricket for garnering publicity for his causes. That simple. It proves that everything that comes out of his mouth isnt related to cricket.

You cant make up your mind or perhaps it is a deliberate attempt. Here is the difference :-

India Pakistan playing 3 times in last 3 years = Due to Peace moves

India Pakistan fan following = Due to Jingoism.

Yeah Sanz, of course, the quality of cricket couldn't have anything to do with it obviously

As for Television audience, do you have any statistical data to prove all that or just that some of your friends miss school on all five days during tests (remember C_C will argue that it is much dificult to do that in India for 5 days)

Ah Sanz, living in the US has obviously placed you in a better position to guage the fan following here Did you have any statistical data to prove that more neutrals watch the Ashes or did you do a census count there ?

 

[luckyeddie]

Ah Sanz, living in the US has obviously placed you in a better position to guage the fan following here Did you have any statistical data to prove that more neutrals watch the Ashes or did you do a census count there ?

He's doing no more or no less than you seem to be doing - banging his head against a brick wall.

Let me give you a piece of advice - it feels great when you stop.

 

[Deja moo]

I though we already saw one of the best competitive series few months ago..may be you missed. Ind-Pak have missed 25 years in last 50 years..they need to start playing regularly before a cricket rivalry is born else it will remain a Jingoistic rivalry. Body Line was cricket, flat pitches aren't.

Sorry, but some people do have the concept of trends. The last 15 years have been long enough to demonstrate that the Ashes has fallen behind, and if its anyone who has to do the catching up, its the Ashes. And bodyline was cricket? It was so 'cricketing' that they were forced to change the laws .

and now I can safely say that you have not watched cricket for long. When did you start following cricket, 2000 ?? .Hell I think India-Pak Rivalry is much bigger in ODIs than it is in Test cricket. An Ind-Pak ODI cricket match has more competition than an Ind-Pak test match...

To each his own Sanz. I can safely say you prefer the sensationalism over quality.

 

[Deja moo]

He's doing no more or no less than you seem to be doing - banging his head against a brick wall.

Let me give you a piece of advice - it feels great when you stop.

I cannot argue with that. However when the bleeding obvious is being denied, its hard to resist questioning it again and again.

 

[Sanz]

Ah Sanz, living in the US has obviously placed you in a better position to guage the fan following here

No it hasn't and my observation is mainly based on Empty stands during a test match series. I didn't bring Television audience issue you and C_C did, now it is on you to prove that you are right. I looked at the TRP rating for tests and it is much lower than ODIs and some of you said TRP ratings aren't the best way to know that that well my friend then neither is your word.

Did you have any statistical data to prove that more neutrals watch the Ashes or did you do a census count there ?

In case you forgot, I clearly said that my opinion was based on neutrals following Ashes thtead and Ind-Pak thread.

 

[Sanz]

Sorry, but some people do have the concept of trends. The last 15 years have been long enough to demonstrate that the Ashes has fallen behind, and if its anyone who has to do the catching up, its the Ashes.

Guess what...15 years trend is not valid for INDIA-PAK. It is more like 2 years. And 2 years dont make a rivalry.

And bodyline was cricket? It was so 'cricketing' that they were forced to change the laws .

With that logic....Murali isn't even a cricketer because ICC were forced to change laws...

To each his own Sanz. I can safely say you prefer the sensationalism over quality.

So ODIs are about sensationalism and flat pitches are Quality ? Well then I guess majority of subcontinent people prefer that and it proved in the current series when more security guards were watching test cricket at Faislabad and Lahore.

 

[Deja moo]

No it hasn't and my observation is mainly based on Empty stands during a test match series. I didn't bring Television audience issue you and C_C did, now it is on you to prove that you are right. I looked at the TRP rating for tests and it is much lower than ODIs and some of you said TRP ratings aren't the best way to know that that well my friend then neither is your word.

TRP ratings for ODIs are obviously going to be lower than those for tests, they're more fulfilling to the viewer and some of them are even conveniently timed for office goers. And I'm not talking just Ind-Pak ODIs, pretty much all ODIs featuring India have higher ratings than any tests we play.

In case you forgot, I clearly said that my opinion was based on neutrals following Ashes thtead and Ind-Pak thread.

Its an opinion. And I'm sure the opinion consists purely of the 2005 Ashes thread. Considering that the previous Ashes perhaps were played when CW didnt have as great a member base, this becomes a moot point, because no one disputes that this Ashes series was a great one.

 

[Deja moo]

Guess what...15 years trend is not valid for INDIA-PAK. It is more like 2 years. And 2 years dont make a rivalry.

Why the repeated blatant misrepresentation ? Its 7 years from 98 to 2005. Making the obvious conclusion from these 7 years of Ind-Pak cricket and 15 years of lop sided Ashes
series is very pertinent. Would you say the West Indies are a great team now ? After all they have a great history and were so dominant. Would you fly in the face of what happened over the last 15 years or so and claim that they are still the best because of their history ? No, because 15 years is a heck of a lot of time. You cannot claim that South Africa have only being playing 13 years since readmission, and therefore havent been better than the WI over that period of time.

With that logic....Murali isn't even a cricketer because ICC were forced to change laws...

They had to change the laws because they found the tolerance limits for all bowlers were incorrect. It wasn't because one individual or team took advantage of loopholes in existing laws, unlike Bodyline. The laws were changed to outlaw Bodyline cricket, the laws havent been changed to outlaw Murali. One was proved illegit, the other wasn't.

So ODIs are about sensationalism and flat pitches are Quality ? Well then I guess majority of subcontinent people prefer that and it proved in the current series when more security guards were watching test cricket at Faislabad and Lahore.

So let me get this straight. Flat pitches in tests = bad (I don't deny this), but uber flat pitches in ODIs, where 350 is chasable = good ?

 

[Sanz]

Why the repeated blatant misrepresentation ? Its 7 years from 98 to 2005.

You are the one who is doing a blatant misrepresentation. India didn't play any test with Pak for 5 years, it refused to tour Pakistan between 1999 and 2004 (5 years), it refused to follow ICC schedule during that period. Do you disagree with the fact that due to Kargil India-Pakl test tours were abandoned between 1999 and 2004 ? India Pakistan started playing regularly again only in 2004.

[quote Would you say the West Indies are a great team now ? After all they have a great history and were so dominant. Would you fly in the face of what happened over the last 15 years or so and claim that they are still the best because of their history ? No, because 15 years is a heck of a lot of time. You cannot claim that South Africa have only being playing 13 years since readmission, and therefore havent been better than the WI over that period of time.[/quote]

The difference is that Aus-Eng had an awesome series last year hence all the above by you sounds like crap to me.

They had to change the laws because they found the tolerance limits for all bowlers were incorrect. It wasn't because one individual or team took advantage of loopholes in existing laws, unlike Bodyline. The laws were changed to outlaw Bodyline cricket, the laws havent been changed to outlaw Murali. One was proved illegit, the other wasn't.

The point is law was changed...In this case to suit one individual for whatever reasons.

So let me get this straight. Flat pitches in tests = bad (I don't deny this), but uber flat pitches in ODIs, where 350 is chasable = good ?

Why dont you ask millions of subcontinent people who fill up stadiums to watch ODIs yet simply ignore Test Cricket.

 

[warne_94]

I Agree With Godofcricket
But I'm The Real God Of Cricket

 

[Jono]

Massive bump. I remember a few of my posts in this thread.

Let's see now... since then with all the talking up of the Ashes Series, we've had Australia beat England 5-0, with one and a half exciting tests.

I have a feeling India vs. Pakistan may just outdo that in terms of an interesting contest.

 

[pup11]

I think the Indo-Pak series should be named "Bashes"!!

 

[biased indian]

May be cashes

 

[pup11]

^^ Yeah mate that won't be a bad name either for the series but i would still like it to be called "Bashes" it truly represents the spirit with which both these sides collide against each other .

 

[Perm]

I think the Indo-Pak series should be named "Bashes"!!

Worst suggestion ever?

 

[pup11]

^ Thanks Permsy for judging my suggestion with such honesty

 

[PhoenixFire]

^ Thanks Permsy for judging my suggestion with such honesty

???

 

[Pratters]

???

Taito, Watto, Clarkey...