capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Who is the greater Test Batsman?
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Kevin Pietersen vs Kane Williamson
- Thread starter capt_Luffy
- Start date
PlayerComparisons
International Vice-Captain
Very close
PlayerComparisons
International Vice-Captain
Pietersen averaged 47 over a 8 year career
Over the last 11 years, Williamson averages 63
Over the last 11 years, Williamson averages 63
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
KP - 41
KW - 32
KP wins easily.
That's even more embarassing for Kane Williamson. Don't think of it as some kind of defence although for Shafiq and Azhar, UAE is included which should be excluded in all honesty before comparing.
Additionally, Kane Williamson's home record vs Australia is pretty poor top, averages 27. He got flattest decks in Australia in 2016 tour where Williamson scored multiple tons albeit in match losing cause.
Johan
State Vice-Captain
funnily, the 2016 Australian decks were the average pitches of Kevin's career, lol.
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
By using your stats and logic, Stephen Fleming (53.86) is the 2nd best batsman of the 21st century behind Brian Lara (54.64).Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
stats.espncricinfo.com
KP - 41
KW - 32
KP wins easily.
Kevin did well against the likes of McGrath and Warne. Whether at home or away, the kind of aggressive cricket he played was a sight to watch. He pretty much pulverized opposition with the kind of batting he did. He was way ahead of his stats, averages 50 in 2000s but unlike ABD, Amla and Clarke who comes from same generation, took apart the likes of McGrath and Warne.
Post 2010, he became very inconsistent and particularly after that Mumbai knock, he simply declined as a batsman. I am not a fan of him and a a character, I hated his personality but he was a superb cricketer and someone whom you genuinely fear that this guy can take away the game in a flash.
Stokes has similar aura but only in specific conditions such a SEN. KP did this in all conditions. Neither consistent.
Kane Williamson is consistent and dominant at home but still poor vs Australia and his away record is far worse than KP against good opponents.
Fleming is an underrated batsman. Surely better than his career stats.
Away performance goes a long way in deciding the greatness of the player and Kane has poor home record vs Australia too.
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
Terrible at home as wasn't very good against swing. Was bad against leftarmers too. Had he been born in Asia he would've averaged much more
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
Re KW and KP, Williamson was/is clearly much better. Had he converted eithet his 50 in the 1st test or yesterday's 46 into a 100, this thread wouldn't have even started.
Johan
State Vice-Captain
my problem with your ultra statistical approach toward just about everything spawns from cases like this.
Kane played his first ever test series as a 21-22 year old in India against India and averaged 42, which is pretty decent, but that was not against the India that emerged after 2015 under Kohli's captaincy, there is no guarantee that Pietersen would be brilliant on rank turners against Ashwin and Jadeja, especially since the only two Batsmen who achieved that feat are Steve Smith and Joe Root (both levels superior to Pietersen), comparing current India to the India of 2000s is just...lame.
like there are legit holes in Kane's record like England and Sri Lanka, but then you're just blindly comparing their away records without counting in the massive context regarding India and South Africa, where Kane has almost never played, it just comes off as you trying to make the gap between their batting outside home look bigger than it is.
like even Kane's England is nothing like the Newzealand that Kevin played in 2000s, like Anderson and Broad with the newball vs the 2000s NZ bowlers while batting in the middle order? it's not even close.
I already need to understand why runs in the Carribean and middle east don't matter but they matter in Lanka? or did you just go to the filter and omit every country you know Williamson has performed against?
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HeathDavisSpeed
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
The man couldn't convert grams to kilograms. He's definitely a significantly inferior batsman to Williamson. Data without context does not equal information.
Coronis
International Coach
Hasn’t everyone been saying Lara struggled against Murali post-doosra? Seemed to do perfectly fine in that 2001 series in SL.
First thing first, I have no issue with any batter not performing in his first series when he was young. It I completely understandable that at that age with hardly any experience and still learning to master the game, it is a bit unfair to expect anyone to perform in alien conditions.
But Williamson failed in 2016 India tour and 2021 India tour also. For a player of his calibre, he should have performed well there. Root hit tons every tour of India, Smith dominated in India in 2017 and although he failed in last tour but in 2017, he was just at another level. Williamson has simply not done that.
Williamson also toured Australia once in last few years and failed. Australia produced really flat tracks around 2014-2016 where both Kohli and Williamson scored lot of runs but Kohli did hit a test hundred in 2018 tour also and played a good knock in 1 inning he played in 2020 tour.
Smith, Kohli and Root all have performed in South Africa but Williamson has failed to average well there also. His stats are extremely boosted via weak team bullying and when you compare the top teams away from home, KW falls way behind Smith, Kohli and Root.
I have clearly put the facts in the other thread where I clearly mentioned that even if we exclude SL who are actually a better home side than Pakistan or Windies especially post YK' retirement and consider performance vs only top teams away ( Aus, Eng, SA, Ind), KW still falls well behind the other Fab 4 members and to make matter worse, his record is even worse than the 2nd tier batters such as Rahane, Matthews, Pujara, Azhar Ali etc.
Talking about bowling attacks, as I said, KP also faced the likes of McGrath, Warne, Johnson, Harris, Steyn, Philander who are better bowlers than what Aus and SA have now or Murali who is better than what SL have now. So, need to consider all round rather than ignoring the quality attack that KP faced and scored and only counting for KW.
HeathDavisSpeed
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Your analysis is pretty disingenuous tbh. A whole 4 Tests in South Africa, none since 2016. A much larger sample size in India but again, only a single test since 2016. Scored invaluable runs at Southampton against India in the WTC final on a really tough batting deck, but that won't count as 'not in India'.
You clearly don't rate him, that's fine. Do what you like. But I don't find your analysis to be at all compelling as despite your first paragraph in your last post, you don't seem willing to consider the context. (2021 "series" was a single test for Williamson, for example). You're also not rating his debut ton in India at all. His record has holes, but you seem to only see holes and nothing else.
Anyway, I think he's fallen well off his peak and he isn't going to improve on these stats in the coming tour to India, so I'm sure that'll be grist for this particular mill.
You clearly don't rate him, that's fine. Do what you like. But I don't find your analysis to be at all compelling as despite your first paragraph in your last post, you don't seem willing to consider the context. (2021 "series" was a single test for Williamson, for example). You're also not rating his debut ton in India at all. His record has holes, but you seem to only see holes and nothing else.
Anyway, I think he's fallen well off his peak and he isn't going to improve on these stats in the coming tour to India, so I'm sure that'll be grist for this particular mill.
Okay, let's make things simple for everyone.
What is the ultimate challenge in Test cricket for a world class batsman? Is performing only at home and against lower tier nations away from home enough to label a player "great"? How exactly do I put him in league of Kohli or Root, let alone Smith when he doesn't have excellent performance away from home in any of top countries like those three have.
Kohli is spectacular in South Africa and excellent in Australia and Sri Lanka.
Root is spectacular in Sri Lanka and excellent in India, South Africa and New Zealand.
Williamson is spectacular only vs Pakistan away from home but his record is average in Australia and poor in India, South Africa, England and Sri Lanka.
All three have also done well vs Australia at home, that is again an ultimate challenge for a NZ player to do well vs Australia, Hadlee did it admirably back in 80s. Williamson hasn't done that yet.
You can boost your stats no doubt by playing at home or vs weaker nations( forget weak nations remember the SA that came to NZ last series, it was literally a SA 'C' attack) and show your career average as 54-55 but in my opinion, it can't really be taken seriously. Otherwise we might as well start hyping Adam Voges as next best thing since Bradman for his home performance.
Kane Williamson have to improve his away record( this India tour will be key for him) to be rated in the league of ATGs otherwise I see him just a David Warner level batsman who is not as aggressive as Warner.
What is the ultimate challenge in Test cricket for a world class batsman? Is performing only at home and against lower tier nations away from home enough to label a player "great"? How exactly do I put him in league of Kohli or Root, let alone Smith when he doesn't have excellent performance away from home in any of top countries like those three have.
Kohli is spectacular in South Africa and excellent in Australia and Sri Lanka.
Root is spectacular in Sri Lanka and excellent in India, South Africa and New Zealand.
Williamson is spectacular only vs Pakistan away from home but his record is average in Australia and poor in India, South Africa, England and Sri Lanka.
All three have also done well vs Australia at home, that is again an ultimate challenge for a NZ player to do well vs Australia, Hadlee did it admirably back in 80s. Williamson hasn't done that yet.
You can boost your stats no doubt by playing at home or vs weaker nations( forget weak nations remember the SA that came to NZ last series, it was literally a SA 'C' attack) and show your career average as 54-55 but in my opinion, it can't really be taken seriously. Otherwise we might as well start hyping Adam Voges as next best thing since Bradman for his home performance.
Kane Williamson have to improve his away record( this India tour will be key for him) to be rated in the league of ATGs otherwise I see him just a David Warner level batsman who is not as aggressive as Warner.