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Jasprit Bumrah vs Malcolm Marshall

Bumrah vs Marshall at their peak

  • Bumrah

    Votes: 4 14.8%
  • Marshall

    Votes: 23 85.2%

  • Total voters
    27

kyear2

International Coach
You've actually mentioned these points before when discussing these bowlers and use them as justification to rank them lower and they're not invalid. But when it's mentioned Marshall had better pace support or McGrath had a much superior cordon to help him, you always push back and say "oh every bowler has advantages" instead of looking at them in isolation. Comes off weirdly defensive.
Every bowler had their advantages. Is this not true?

Name one single ATG bowler who didn't have some built in advantage.

Hadlee didn't have the best support, but he ended up with an insane WPM, no one says he wasn't the best due to his average, his wpm more than makes up for that. It's also easier to bowl such spells when your tests are way more spaced out. Not using that as an advantage, but it just was.
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Why?

Is the workload different?

Which is harder on your body, 86 tests over 18 years, or 86 tests 11 years? And the latter was express.

Which do you think would break down a fast bowlers faster?
Yes the workload is different. I used to have your point of view but realised that there is the wear and tear of travel and side games that go with international tours. You are literally trying to keep your bowling game ready for a much longer time.
 

centurymaker

Cricketer Of The Year
None of those are ATGs.

Hadlee-17 years.
McGrath-15 years.
Steyn-16 years.
Imran-21 years
Lillee-15 years.
Wasim-18 years

Marshall has a definite longevity issue.
McGrath is 13 years.
Steyn is 14 years (including 1-2 yrs missed)
Lillee is 13 years.

Marshall is 13 years (including 2-3 yrs missed)


You are misrepresenting things.
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Every bowler had their advantages. Is this not true?

Name one single ATG bowler who didn't have some built in advantage.

Hadlee didn't have the best support, but he ended up with an insane WPM, no one says he wasn't the best due to his average, his wpm more than makes up for that. It's also easier to bowl such spells when your tests are way more spaced out. Not using that as an advantage, but it just was.
Yeah but some advantages are bigger than others and we recognize that and factor that in.

It's why I don't say 'hey look at Hadlee's WPM and tenfers obviously he is better than McGrath'

Yet somehow this doesn't apply to Marshall having the greatest ever pace support to boost his average. Why do we have to take his numbers at face value?
 

kyear2

International Coach
Yeah but some advantages are bigger than others and we recognize that and factor that in.

It's why I don't say 'hey look at Hadlee's WPM and tenfers obviously he is better than McGrath'

Yet somehow this doesn't apply to Marshall having the greatest ever pace support to boost his average. Why do we have to take his numbers at face value?
Who's numbers so I not take at face value?

There's give and take, he didn't get the wpm that Hadlee and Lille were privy to, he didn't get to feast in minnows that Imran and Hadlee were able to. It evens out.

There's nothing not to take at face value.
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Who's numbers so I not take at face value?

There's give and take, he didn't get the wpm that Hadlee and Lille were privy to, he didn't get to feast in minnows that Imran and Hadlee were able to. It evens out.

There's nothing not to take at face value.
If it's give and take, what are you taking from Marshall?

Did Marshalls average get an artificial boost given the exceptional quality of bowlers he played with though?
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
When it's the same amount of matches with more rest in-between tours? Where you body gets a chance to recover?
The strain of preparing for international games is more though.

And it's also about opportunities.

McGrath played less duration than Hadlee yet had a much higher amount of tests. It's not like McGrath was tougher than Hadlee he just got to play more.

However, don't get me wrong, I am not saying this made a huge difference on Marshalls record by having a couple of likely lame years cut away. Him having ace bowling support definitely did though.
 

OverratedSanity

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Every bowler had their advantages. Is this not true?

Name one single ATG bowler who didn't have some built in advantage.
Again, you don't say this when you point out Murali/Steyn/Hadlee had helpful home conditions. You just.... say those things without encasing it in a "every bowler has a built in advantage" qualifier, which you only bring out when talkin g about Marshall (or sometimes McGrath).
 

Sliferxxxx

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Great so what do you think his career average would be if he was in a poor attack and played a full 15 year career like others?
The only fast bowler who i can think of who had a lengthy career and was a longish wolf os Hadlee. And he and Sir Richard were of similar quality with different MOs. So i could see him doing similarly to Hadlee, with a worse econ, similar wpm and average but better SR.
 

Sliferxxxx

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
I really don't see why people are so hung up on this longevity stuff. Someone already pointed out that 70 odd tests and 300 or so wickets is more than enough to evaluate a pace bowler. Is anyone really picking Walsh over Holding simply because Walsh played almost 3 times as many tests. I mean come on.

I'm picking bowlers Who have shown they can take wickets, anywhere vs anyone at a cheap enough average and relatively fast without leaking too many runs. Only a handful of bowlers come close to those criteria. Marshall is one of them. Don't like it ? Tough luck!!!
 

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