Jacob Oram - more speed please?

[Andre]

I'm adding that as a new phrase in the English language.

Takes your count up to 4 then!

 

[tooextracool]

A 'little injured'?

I'm adding that as a new phrase in the English language.

it would only be a little injury if NZ werent so full of bottled milk

 

[cbuts]

and dont forget that until a couple of years ago, orams bowling was like astles. give u a few overs in the odi's and u could flick him the ball in the test to see if he could fluke a wicket. orams bowling has come along way in two seasons. from a prt timer to a spear head. if we had bond, i think they would work very well together.

 

[Craig]

Takes your count up to 4 then!

So what are you implying?

 

[MoxPearl]

im pretty sure oram is not suppose to be a fast bowler.. hes more a medium imho (althou he got some good speed yesterday)

NZ only really has 2 main Fast Bowlers with one of them being one of the best and fastest in the world (Bond) and the other is good on his day bar far to incosistent (Butler)

Lol i remember Heath Davis... he was fast.. and he was a psyco lol

 

[_Ed_]

Lol i remember Heath Davis... he was fast.. and he was a psyco lol

Hehehe, good old Heath. No Ball, No Ball, No Ball, WICKET!!

 

[cbuts]

ian butler is alot better bowler than he was when he was first brought in. in the limited chances he has got this year, he has looked good, injuries have just had havoc on him.

 

[Mingster]

Jeez, I'm not asking him to be express fast pace, like some of you people are quoting me. He was bowling around 125-130 in England, and that's pretty military medium. If he could bowl consistently in the 130-135 region, that would make his bounce even more pronounced, and not having to rely on his bounce the whole time.

You can't just bounce class international batsmen everytime, you need variations whether it be speed, swing or seam.

Oram is part of the three pronged pace Test attack, and at the moment, he's looking more of a 4th option for me.

Bond/Butler, Franklin, Tuffey and Oram with Vettori.

 

[Arjun]

Does every bowler have to bowl at express pace? Bond and Butler and probably Adams, and that should be enough. The team needs swing bowlers (Franklin may be one) and not-so-fast bowlers who keep a tight line and length, which Tuffey and Oram can do well.

 

[sportychic33]

I'm not asking him to be express fast pace, like some of you people are quoting me. He was bowling around 125-130 in England, and that's pretty military medium. If he could bowl consistently in the 130-135 region, that would make his bounce even more pronounced, and not having to rely on his bounce the whole time

Yes he did bowl around the 130km range against England but I think he was struggling with injury. Over the home series against Pakistan and South Africa Oram consistently bowled in the 130 - 135 range and in some games he bowled above 135 km.

You can't just bounce class international batsmen everytime, you need variations whether it be speed, swing or seam.

Yes and in the team we have the swing in Franklin, Mills and sometimes Tuffey and we also have the pace from Butler and Bond if they ever play. Oram is the main bounce bowler and on low bouncing pitches the bounce of Oram can unexpectedly jump up on batsmen.

Last night I heard that John Bracewell and Oram were working on getting Oram bowling with a different action to prevent pressure on his ribs which comes from bowling Reverse swing. So hopefully that the remodelling may result in Oram consistently bowling 130+ without being hassled with injury and also being able to constintely bowl reverse swing.

 

[Top_Cat]

Jeez, I'm not asking him to be express fast pace, like some of you people are quoting me. He was bowling around 125-130 in England, and that's pretty military medium. If he could bowl consistently in the 130-135 region, that would make his bounce even more pronounced, and not having to rely on his bounce the whole time.

I think you might be putting too much stock in speeds like that. The difference between 125km/h and 135km/h ain't that much when facing it. Take it from some one who's facedsome awfully quick bowlers. Once you get above 130km/h, the difference between bowlers isn't much. I think if you actually faced someone of that pace, you'd see why.

 

[Arjun]

Take it from some one who's facedsome awfully quick bowlers.

How does Australia produce bowlers of that pace? Those methods could be used in India and Sri Lanka, and even in NZ.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

The conditions in India and Sri Lanka aren't conducive to producing quick bowlers as Australia.

 

[Arjun]

The conditions in India and Sri Lanka aren't conducive to producing quick bowlers as Australia.

Why conditions? Why not bowlers? There are not too many fast bowler in England and NZ, though they produce conditions conducive for fast bowlers. The West Indies are as hot as most places in India and Sri Lanka, yet they have a rich legacy of fast bowlers. Australia is also very hot. The Northern part of India is slightly cold and chilly, and also a little windy, so that may be a good breeding ground. I would like to know this, since these 3 teams need fast bowlers if they play a bowling attack that's based more on pace.

 

[Neil Pickup]

England and NZ produce conditions conducive to swing bowling, not pace bowling. Pitches with exaggerated - and late - sideways movement are far more prevalent here and in NZ with the phenomena of morning moisture, dew, and heavy cloud cover contributing.

Australia, SA, and the WI in the 1980s produced conditions that were hard, fast and bouncy which encourages out-and-out pace rather than movement (witness ineffectiveness of Matthew Hoggard [traditional English swing bowler] in Australia).

Less sure of Indian climatic situation, but as far as I'm aware pitches are more dusty and unresponsive (more like Trinidad in a way) therefore dissuading seamers and encouraging spinners.

 

[tooextracool]

its also quite strange that pakistan seem to be producing fast bowlers in abundance while there seems to be a dearth in quality spin bowling coming up there......out of the 3 countries in the sub continent it does appear as though the pakistan pitches offer a lot more for the pace bowlers...

 

[Mingster]

I think you might be putting too much stock in speeds like that. The difference between 125km/h and 135km/h ain't that much when facing it. Take it from some one who's facedsome awfully quick bowlers. Once you get above 130km/h, the difference between bowlers isn't much. I think if you actually faced someone of that pace, you'd see why.

Oh no, 125 and 135 is one heck of a difference. Look at Chris Martin, he was bowling at over 137+ and 140s occasionally in NZ, and look at him in the England Tests, he was only hovering around the 130 mark.

Tuffey seems to have refound his pace in the ODIs.

 

[Top_Cat]

Oh no, 125 and 135 is one heck of a difference.

Rubbish. You've just proven to me you've never faced a bowler of any real pace for you to say that. It 'seems' like a bit difference but it really isn't when you're at the other end.

And before you ask, I've faced up to Shane George (around 140km/h), Troy Corbett (~145km/h), Jason Gillespie (~140km/h), Dennis Hickey (~145km/h), Brad Wigney (~135km/h) and Chris Owen (~138km/h) and even though the speed differences between them on the gun were significant, when at the other end, the differences were only marginal if noticeable at all.

Look at Chris Martin, he was bowling at over 137+ and 140s occasionally in NZ, and look at him in the England Tests, he was only hovering around the 130 mark.

Yup and I bet the batsmen aren't noticing any difference at all as far as raw speed goes.

 

[cbuts]

there is a big difference between 125 and 135. but i agree with u that 130 odd and upwards, you dont notice much difference. ive faced oram and tuffey. sherlock, and then a cuople of young quicks who are gonna be going down to the academy this year. fatest ive faced/that was recorded anyways, was 146. and at that pace it just becomes instinct, chris martin was not bowling in the 140's in nz, worst call ever!

 

[Arjun]

England and NZ produce conditions conducive to swing bowling, not pace bowling. Pitches with exaggerated - and late - sideways movement are far more prevalent here and in NZ with the phenomena of morning moisture, dew, and heavy cloud cover contributing.

Australia, SA, and the WI in the 1980s produced conditions that were hard, fast and bouncy which encourages out-and-out pace rather than movement (witness ineffectiveness of Matthew Hoggard [traditional English swing bowler] in Australia).

Less sure of Indian climatic situation, but as far as I'm aware pitches are more dusty and unresponsive (more like Trinidad in a way) therefore dissuading seamers and encouraging spinners.

There have been a few FAST bowlers in England's cricketing history, and there are two who can bowl fast these days, and three close to top pace. At least 1 of 5 bowls fast.

Australian/S'African/WI bowlers bowl fast, but not all of them bowl at top pace. Those who can, maintain it at different venues. WI pitches are slow these days, and SA pitches in the World Cup were flat.

Indian fast bowlers or medium-pacers are not that fast, even on helpful wickets, so wickets may not make a difference much. It may also be the coaching bmethods employed that make the bowlers in those teams fast. Pakistani pitches are like Indian pitches, but they still have all-terrain fast bowlers, so what are they doing that the Indians are not?

North Indian conditions are similar to those in England, and the Mohali pitch was a good example, before it became yet another crumbler.

Brett Lee said that in Australia, they tell the tykes to bowl fast. Some like that style, so they take to it. There are some who choose swing bowling, and some who like to keep a line and length. In India, that encouragement was not there, except in the recent past, where we have these 'speed hunts', but even the bowlers who win these events are just 125-130kph.