Ireland and scotland to be kicked out by ecb

[brockley]

ECB slam 'offshore' games
By Simon Briggs
Last Updated: 3:48am BST 29/05/2007


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Sunday's round of Friends Provident games brought a famous victory for Scotland over a Lancashire team containing six full internationals.

"The Who's Who of cricket turned up today to play against us," said their delighted captain, Ryan Watson. Yet the odds are that Scotland will play no part in the tournament next summer, because of a row over broadcasting money.

Like Ireland, their friends and rivals, the Scots have offended the suits at Lord's by volunteering to stage so-called "offshore internationals". These are games that sneak outside the existing broadcasting agreements, and so put the wind up the accountants. The England and Wales Cricket Board are threatening to expel both countries from the 50-overs competition if they go ahead.

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Ireland have arranged to host India and South Africa for a series of one-day games in late June. The Scots will be staging just one international: India v Pakistan in Glasgow on July 12. This match has been organised with the help of the Prince's Trust, and purports to celebrate the 60th anniversary of independence for both countries. The charity stands to make £2.5 million from the event, but Zee TV, the exclusive rights-holders, are likely to do even better.

"There is a serious concern that offshore matches could dilute moneys coming into the game in the long term," said David Collier, the ECB's chief executive. The heart of the matter is that ESPN Star have paid the ECB handsomely for the right to broadcast all their international cricket into the Asian market. This was supposed to be a monopoly deal. So if Zee TV start running their own programming from the rest of the British Isles, the value of the next TV deal is likely to fall.

 

[LA ICE-E]

ECB are just being selfish and should read what Andrew Nixon is saying there.

 

[Richard]

Wouldn't it just be so much easier if everyone recognised that the British Isles was better united than it was divided where cricket is concerned?

 

[Dasa]

Wouldn't it just be so much easier if everyone recognised that the British Isles was better united than it was divided where cricket is concerned?

Any good reasons why that should be so?

 

[Richard]

Because it always has been. Simple as. Only now, with "the expansion menace" as Matthew Engel astutely described it, is there attempt to make Ireland and Scotland separate countries.

 

[LA ICE-E]

yeah I went over this with you like 100 timesere, as of right now, not the past, not the future, right now which is where you're living in, ECB represent England and Wales. Get that? It doesn't represent the british isles. So stop living in the past and move on, stop whining about it. And again don't start with the expansion crap, it has nothing do with it otherwise wales would be separate and so would the windies.

 

[Dasa]

Because it always has been. Simple as. Only now, with "the expansion menace" as Matthew Engel astutely described it, is there attempt to make Ireland and Scotland separate countries.

'Because it always has been' is not a good reason. Can you show that, for example, Irish cricketers actually want to play as part of an England team over the option of playing as part of an Ireland team?

 

[Richard]

'Because it always has been' is not a good reason. Can you show that, for example, Irish cricketers actually want to play as part of an England team over the option of playing as part of an Ireland team?

Yorkshire cricketers would have been delighted to play against Australia in the 1930s as Yorkshire, too.

The fact that Irish cricketers have and do play in and for England suggests they're not remotely unhappy about doing so. Therefore, I see no reason to change 100 years of history and have Scotland and Ireland as separate teams.

There is no reason why The British Isles cannot play as one.

 

[Richard]

yeah I went over this with you like 100 timesere, as of right now, not the past, not the future, right now which is where you're living in, ECB represent England and Wales. Get that? It doesn't represent the british isles. So stop living in the past and move on, stop whining about it. And again don't start with the expansion crap, it has nothing do with it otherwise wales would be separate and so would the windies.

What it does reprisent is not important - what is relevant is what there should be a cricket organisation reprisenting - and this is what was reprisented for the best part of 100 years (1903 to 1997). Not England and Wales, but The British Isles. Because the British Isles have always played as one (and are overwhelmingly likely to continue to do so despite the attempts to separate them) and no amount of we-need-expansion-so-let's-try-to-split-up-cricket-playing-teams should change that.

 

[BoyBrumby]

'Because it always has been' is not a good reason. Can you show that, for example, Irish cricketers actually want to play as part of an England team over the option of playing as part of an Ireland team?

Well on some level they must do, becuase Joyce has appeared for us & O'Brien (the wicket-keeping one, Niall?) said he'd be keen once his finished his residency. It's really the carrot of test cricket that causes them to switch allegiance tho.

Totally agree with you point about "because it always has been" tho. I mean before India was accorded test status Ranji, Duleep & the Nawab of Pataudi snr all played for us. As India, in cricketing terms, was clearly a part of England can we have Dravid & Kumble back, please?

 

[Richard]

Totally agree with you point about "because it always has been" tho. I mean before India was accorded test status Ranji, Duleep & the Nawab of Pataudi snr all played for us. As India, in cricketing terms, was clearly a part of England can we have Dravid & Kumble back, please?

Completely different, and you know it. Totally separate geographical areas. There was no reason for India to remain part of The British Empire. There is every reason for The British Isles to play cricket together.

 

[LA ICE-E]

Yorkshire cricketers would have been delighted to play against Australia in the 1930s as Yorkshire, too.

The fact that Irish cricketers have and do play in and for England suggests they're not remotely unhappy about doing so. Therefore, I see no reason to change 100 years of history and have Scotland and Ireland as separate teams.

There is no reason why The British Isles cannot play as one.

here's the thing you just don't get, IRELAND IS A SEPERATE NATION, Yorkshire isn't. The fact that Irish cricket play for England doesn't show anything because the reason they play for England is to play test cricket.

What it does reprisent is not important - what is relevant is what there should be a cricket organisation reprisenting - and this is what was reprisented for the best part of 100 years (1903 to 1997). Not England and Wales, but The British Isles. Because the British Isles have always played as one (and are overwhelmingly likely to continue to do so despite the attempts to separate them) and no amount of we-need-expansion-so-let's-try-to-split-up-cricket-playing-teams should change that.

What the **** is wrong with you seriously? ****! how many time do I ****ing have to explain this **** to you? Ireland and Scotland are separate nations, they choose to separate themselves not some expansion ****, you say that they should break 100 years of history then if expansion was the case for the splits then why the hell is Wales still England? Why the hell is Windies together still? So it's not relevant what the fact is but it is relevant what fiction is, what you want huh? this is really pissing me off...

Well on some level they must do, becuase Joyce has appeared for us & O'Brien (the wicket-keeping one, Niall?) said he'd be keen once his finished his residency. It's really the carrot of test cricket that causes them to switch allegiance tho.

Totally agree with you point about "because it always has been" tho. I mean before India was accorded test status Ranji, Duleep & the Nawab of Pataudi snr all played for us. As India, in cricketing terms, was clearly a part of England can we have Dravid & Kumble back, please?

give Ireland test status and see if any of them would play for England...

 

[LA ICE-E]

Completely different, and you know it. Totally separate geographical areas. There was no reason for India to remain part of The British Empire. There is every reason for The British Isles to play cricket together.

really pakistan played as India before it's independents, **** we went over this like thousand times but I don't know how dumb someone has to be to not get it by then.

 

[Richard]

here's the thing you just don't get, IRELAND IS A SEPERATE NATION, Yorkshire isn't. The fact that Irish cricket play for England doesn't show anything because the reason they play for England is to play test cricket.

Being a separate nation is not important in international cricket. Not every team is defined by political boundaries.

What the **** is wrong with you seriously? ****! how many time do I ****ing have to explain this **** to you? Ireland and Scotland are separate nations, they choose to separate themselves not some expansion ****, you say that they should break 100 years of history then if expansion was the case for the splits then why the hell is Wales still England? Why the hell is Windies together still? So it's not relevant what the fact is but it is relevant what fiction is, what you want huh? this is really pissing me off...

There is only one reason why Wales is still under the same name as England - the fact that Glamorgan have been playing in the County Championship for the last 86 years. Had they not, the Board formed in 1997 would have been called the English Cricket Board, I've no doubt whatsoever about that. And equally, if East Stirlingshire and County Down had played in the Championship, the Board would have been called the British Isles Cricket Board and everything in the garden would be rosy, rather than this "Ireland and Scotland must be separate" crap.

give Ireland test status and see if any of them would play for England...

Why not go further? Why not give Finland and Albania Test status?

 

[Dasa]

Well on some level they must do, becuase Joyce has appeared for us & O'Brien (the wicket-keeping one, Niall?) said he'd be keen once his finished his residency. It's really the carrot of test cricket that causes them to switch allegiance tho.

Yeah, that's more what I'm getting at...I'm a bit sceptical of the notion that Irish players would seek to play for England if the possibility of playing Test cricket wasn't there.

Completely different, and you know it. Totally separate geographical areas. There was no reason for India to remain part of The British Empire. There is every reason for The British Isles to play cricket together.

What are these reasons though? You seem to have stopped at 'because it's always been so' and that's not really a valid argument.

 

[Richard]

really pakistan played as India before it's independents, **** we went over this like thousand times but I don't know how dumb someone has to be to not get it by then.

Indeed. And had they wished to keep playing as "the subcontinent" or something, there's no reason they shouldn't have. But they didn't, and things became what they are. Such a thing is not remotely likely with The British Isles.

 

[Richard]

What are these reasons though? You seem to have stopped at 'because it's always been so' and that's not really a valid argument.

It is, as far as I'm concerned. There's no good reason at all to break with 100-odd years of tradition. It's not like ROI, Scotland, England, Wales and NI are at loggerheads and on the verge of nuclear war. There is no good reason why we should not have a united cricket team.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Completely different, and you know it. Totally separate geographical areas. There was no reason for India to remain part of The British Empire. There is every reason for The British Isles to play cricket together.

If geographical proximity is your main argument it's hardly compelling, is it? Some of the bitterest sporting rivalries are local. So no, there isn't every reason for the British Isles to play together. Your only contention seems to be that "it's always been like that".

 

[Richard]

If geographical proximity is your main argument it's hardly compelling, is it? Some of the bitterest sporting rivalries are local. So no, there isn't every reason for the British Isles to play together. Your only contention seems to be that "it's always been like that".

Indeed they are - but when Yorkshire and Lancashire players are selected to play for England, they're as one, regardless of local rivalries when reprisenting Yorks and Lancs. There's no reason why Lancastrians and Irishmen should be separate other than "Republic Of Ireland is a separate political nation". Well, Jamaica and Barbados are separate nations too. But they've always played as West Indies. And until this expansion nonsense in 1997, the British Isles always played together without this "residential qualification" crap, even if the name was poorly dubbed "England".

Who knows, maybe we'd have had more Irishmen playing cricket if we'd been called "The British Isles" since 1903. Sadly, MCC didn't have the ability to look forward 90 years.

 

[Dasa]

It is, as far as I'm concerned. There's no good reason at all to break with 100-odd years of tradition. It's not like ROI, Scotland, England, Wales and NI are at loggerheads and on the verge of nuclear war. There is no good reason why we should not have a united cricket team.

It isn't really an acceptable argument though.
I'm open to real and valid reasons why Ireland shouldn't be treated as a separate country in cricketing terms....but as far as I can see, the demarcation between Ireland and England as cricket teams wouldn't have been made if there was no potential for growth in Ireland or no potential for an eventually competitive Irish cricket team.