How Much Longer Do We Wait Before Declaring Starc As The ODI GOAT?

[stephen]

Starc only has 8 players ahead of him on the list of 4+ wicket hauls in ODIs. He only has 9 ahead of him on the list of 5 wicket hauls. In both of these cases the bowlers have done so in 160+ matches. Starc has played 67.

Starc has the second lowest ODI average for a bowler with more that 50 ODIs played. The lowest belongs to Garner.

Starc has the lowest strike rate amongst bowlers who have bowled in 50+ ODIs.

Starc has an economy rate of 4.8 which is more than respectable in the current era.

Starc bowled his side to victory in a world cup, taking 22 wickets at an average of 10.

Starc averages under 21 against all bar two nations.

So when do we recognise him as the GOAT ODI bowler?

 

[Burgey]

He's a great ODI bowler, but I always have a feeling he could go around the park at any moment, much like Lee. I'm probably very old fashioned when it comes to looking at ODI bowlers as I tend to put a premium on the blokes who take one or two for 40 odd (don't hold me to weightings for eras etc, it's just an example) than someone who might take 4-60 odd. I probably need to adjust my thinking a bit on that, but it's why I've always rated someone like McGrath a far better ODI bowler than Lee.

Certainly Starc's ability to inflict damage with the new ball is Garner-like though.

 

[stephen]

Starc might look like that but his economy is actually quite good for the era. I mean it's not great but it's still better than Anderson, Jadeja, Ashwin, Broad, Southie and Malinga in the same period. In fact most of the bowlers who have better economy rates than Starc are spinners, who don't have to bowl at the death. And the fast bowlers who have a better economy than him have an economy only about 0.2 rpo less than Starc.

McGrath was amazing but I'm not sure we'll see ODI bowlers going for under 4rpo again now that T20 is here to stay.

 

[Burgey]

Yeah I think it's something which needs to be factored in now - even the really good bowlers are going to go around the park more often than previously because of the way the game has developed.

 

[honestbharani]

He is getting up there but given the amount of ODI cricket that is played in this era, I would say he would need to play at least 150 games at the same level of performances to kinda cement that title. He is among the top 10 ODI bowlers already though, at least for me.

 

[Midwinter]

Did you think that the last game he played against NZ ?

 

[Spikey]

Remember in the 2013 champions trophy when they dropped him so we could have a bowling attack featuring James Faulkner, Xavier Doherty and Clint McKay

 

[stephen]

Did you think that the last game he played against NZ ?

I thought that as far back as the 2015 WC.

 

[TheJediBrah]

like 80% of his wickets are tail-enders though*


He's a great bowler at tail-enders


*not actual stats

 

[vcs]

He'll be there soon. Needs to play for at least another 4-5 years at this level.

He's like the Kohli of ODI bowling.

 

[quincywagstaff]

His bowling from mid-2012 to the WC final in 2015 was as good as it gets from a ODI pace bowler – 74 wickets @ 16.81 at an economy rate of 4.61 in 34 matches. If he were to replicate that again for another 18-24 month period he would get my vote.

But he hasn’t been quite at the same level since the 2015 WC, probably because he’s become a Test regular and his priming himself for ODIs has dipped a bit. Injuries haven’t helped.

But still, he’s had a remarkable ODI career to date. He’s like an upgrade version of Brett Lee who was an exceptional ODI strike bowler himself.

 

[stephen]

58% of his wickets are of batsmen who bat 1-7.

21% of his wickets are openers.

44% of his victims bat 1-4.

22% of his wickets are ducks.

56% of his wickets are batsmen who are on a score less than 10.

Given his high percentage of 4+ wicket hauls he is prone to taking multiple wickets if he can get one break through.

 

[stephen]

Oh and how could I forget - over 50% of his wickets are bowled or lbw.

 

[Red]

Probably needs to play about double the amount of matches he's played now IMO. If he roughly maintains his form for that time frame.

Probably already in my Aust ATG side. If after he's played 150 matches he's still at the level he's at after having played 67, he'll probably be in my ATG All Time XI.

 

[stephen]

The other bowler he must reminds me of is Waqar Younis who similarly had a huge number of 4+ wicket hauls and took over 50% of his wickets as bowled or lbw.

That's fine company to be in.

 

[Red]

Let's make no bones about it though, the guy is a phenomenal ODI bowler, and is rightly being considered as the GOAT. Right up there with the likes of Garner, McGrath and Wasim imo, just needs more games.

 

[stephen]

Probably needs to play about double the amount of matches he's played now IMO. If he roughly maintains his form for that time frame.

Probably already in my Aust ATG side. If after he's played 150 matches he's still at the level he's at after having played 67, he'll probably be in my ATG All Time XI.

If he goes at the same rate for another 67 matches he'll be 1 behind Waqar on the list of most 4+ wicket hauls having played barely half the ODIs Waqar did. It's obscene that he has so many really. I mean he's already ahead of Donald, Warne, Johnson, Afridi, Anderson, Akhtar and Ambrose on that list. All of whom have played at least double the number of ODIs than him. Afridi played nearly 400 ODIs!

 

[stephen]

He seems to respond well to public criticism as well. When Warne called him out it drove him to becoming a good test bowler. Smith calls him out and he takes it out on the Bangladeshi batsmen.

 

[Red]

Gilchrist
Tendulkar
Ponting
Richards
Kohli
DeVilliers
Wasim
Starc
Garner
Murali
McGrath


Too soon?

 

[stephen]

Tail is a bit long. I probably would drop McGrath and play Klusener or Symonds in the middle. Yes you won't have the 5 ATG bowlers but I think you need the batting firepower more.