How much credit will England get?...........

[Deja moo]

Still bowlers have been missing in Ashes as well, contrary to what you suggested.

Also, are you saying India's performance in Australia should be discredited

Of course. After all we had home advantage, while England dont.

Oh wait a minute, its the other way round !!

 

[luckyeddie]

Did you really watch the Lords's test ?? How many wickets did Harmison take there ? Oh and before you forget it was Harmison who took the vital wicket of Kaspa when Aus needed 2 runs to win the test.

No, I didn't watch the Lord's test - and if you read my posts a couple of days afterwards, you would realise that I was on holiday in Cornwall at the Eden Project. When I got back to my son's in Bristol at the weekend, all the Aussies on here were raving about how wonderful McGrath was and that they still weren't sure about Harmison.

Naturally I believed them - who wouldn't?

(the 'Nothing' was followed with the word 'really' - emphasising the fact that he's not really been a huge factor in the next 2 games (yes, I appreciate he did take the last couple of wickets at Edgbaston). It just wasn't intended to be taken literally.

 

[Craig]

And Warne not being in the team was his mums fault ?

Different circumstances.

Gillespie's axing was the fact that he has been bowling like poo in this series and for some time to be frank and he has looked like not getting wickets so you can understand why he was dropped. He has to simply bowl better then he has been doing (and if you say he doesn't then your a clown).

Warne wasn't in the team because he failed a drug test which was his fault as he should have paid more attention in the ADA meeting's and if he had he wouldn't taken the pill his mum gave him.

 

[Slow Love™]

I dunno how much credit England will get - they deserve plenty. The most undermining comments will come from criticisms of Australia - both from sections of the Aussie press (who won't be able to accept that England could be good enough) and the self-hating English press who might come to the same conclusion.

IMO, as an Aussie supporter, it's just as frustrating to watch everybody talk as if Australia were always crap and never beat a quality side, an therefore have been "exposed" as pretenders by this English side. It's like substantial sections of either side of the debate can't accept the reality that a) this is a really good English side with a very strong bowling attack that might well dominate world cricket, and b) the Aussies probably aren't the force they once were and all things come to an end.

If you read the decent cricket writers though, I think they'll have a fair take on things. Assuming England win the series (and they haven't yet), it takes a while for people to recognize when a torch has been passed. As long as they keep winning, it'll happen before long though.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

If you read the decent cricket writers though, I think they'll have a fair take on things. Assuming England win the series (and they haven't yet), it takes a while for people to recognize when a torch has been passed. As long as they keep winning, it'll happen before long though.

Yeah. I think there is a chance that the torch will be passed before the next Ashes, but I don't think it will be acknowledged immediately (and rightly so), as it was when Australia beat the West Indies a decade ago. There's a few reasons, the main one is that this series is IN England and Australia have had some poor fortune with injuries and so on, and there's also the lack of an extended domination of cricket leading up until this series from England. If England and Australia both continue to dominate all opposition over the next 18 months, the next Ashes will be England's chance to make it official. Obviously, if England dominate while Australia flounder, England could well become the recognised number 1 team in the intervening period.

The most likely thing is probably that both teams will continue to beat everyone for a while yet. I don't think Australia are "in decline" to such a severe degree that other teams will be beating them, and the likely injection of people like Tait and Hussey into the team by the next Australian summer could prove helpful.

 

[Deja moo]

Different circumstances.

Gillespie's axing was the fact that he has been bowling like poo in this series and for some time to be frank and he has looked like not getting wickets so you can understand why he was dropped. He has to simply bowl better then he has been doing (and if you say he doesn't then your a clown).

Warne wasn't in the team because he failed a drug test which was his fault as he should have paid more attention in the ADA meeting's and if he had he wouldn't taken the pill his mum gave him.

Theyre similar in the sense that the benefitting parties had nothing to with getting them out of the team. This is after all a thread regarding how much credit a team receives for a good performance. And you cant receive credit for something you had no hand in.

 

[Piper]

.......................IF England win the current series, how much credit will they get in our own media and around the world? Sadly, after the initial excitement the answer will be, not very much. When the dust has settled and the final analysis complete all the experts will point to the Glen McGrath injuries and also come to the conclusion that Australia are in decline. Whenever we are the best in any sport we always look at the opposition weaknesses to find the reasons.

And they would be right to do so! If McGrath had been fully fit and the Aussies at their best, England still wouldnt fine the Ashes... If people think that England are playing well (which they are) its mainly because the Aussies are in decline, theres no argument about that

 

[sledger]

england cant knock them off the top of the ICC rankings no matter what now, not that it makes any difference at all though imo.

 

[Jamee999]

Not true. I've never seen an England team play better.

 

[Barney Rubble]

Everyone seems to be forgetting one key thing here......it's the Ashes.

Any Australian team which can be outplayed by an England side (the one side against which the Aussies traditionally raise their game even further) this comprehensively for this long is always going to be slated in the media, in whatever country you're talking about.

The McGrath injuries and the loss of form to Gillespie are no excuse - when England had about six bowlers out injured last time round and our attack was Caddick, White, Tudor, Silverwood, Dawson, we weren't allowed any respite from the abuse, and neither should Australia be excused losing on account of losing their two best bowlers, one of which was only to loss of form anyway, which is his own fault.

England shouldn't have to suffer the curse of being known as the England side who "won back the Ashes (but it didn't really count because it wasn't really Australia)". It's not their fault McGrath's so old he falls apart every time he trips over and Gillespie's so concerned about his hair he forgets how to bowl. It is their doing, however, that Freddie Flintoff is the best all-round cricketer in the world, they have the best captain in world cricket right now, their bowlers are becoming the most feared quartet in a very long time, and their batsmen score prodigiously at a breakneck speed with confidence and aggression. They deserve a lot of credit - whether they will get it or not is a different matter.

 

[SJS]

You can deny England credit for winning the Ashes , if they do, only if you areone or more of the following...

.....an Aussie
.....an Aussie who cant take defeat
.....an Aussie who cant take defeat in an Ashes series
.....a non-Aussie who dislikes the English
.....a non-Aussie who dislikes the English for defeating Australia
.....a non-Aussie who dislikes the English for defeating Australia while his own country could not.
.....a moron
.....a moron who doesnt like the prospect of having to eat his own words
.....a moron who dislikes the prospect of having to eat his own words so much that he would rather say Australia are a one horse(or pigeon) team without realising that this a worse indictment of the Aussie might than merely losing the Ashes.

 

[Pratters]

Whatever the result of the Ashes, the performance of England is praiseworthy.

 

[Pratters]

You can deny England credit for winning the Ashes , if they do, only if you areone or more of the following...

....

Similarly for people who would deny India credit for their performance in Australia. I asked Marc regarding it and he quitely did not answer it when he was stating Australian bowling was weak vs India.

 

[biased indian]

Key phrase there being bowlers...

Here it's a bowler missing.

No before the start of the series the bowling line up for Aus would have been
Macgrath,Gillespie,Kasp,Warne

of which Macgrath is injured,Gillespie is out of from as like he was aganist india
and Kasp who has not shown the Form that he showed in the sub continent earlier
Warne as usal is effective aganist england

But every thing aside i think i would give credit to england at the rate they have scored the runs in this series its quiet impressive but may because the Aussie line up is weak as it was ganist india when india did the same in thier last australian tour

 

[biased indian]

.....an Aussie

.....an Aussie who cant take defeat
.....an Aussie who cant take defeat in an Ashes series

why u needed the last two when u have already said about them all

 

[Son Of Coco]

They should get a lot of credit for the way they've played in this series regardless of the end result. If they do win then anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves, if Australia manage to scrape through with a drawn series to retain the Ashes I think they'll consider themselves very lucky indeed.

 

[Deja moo]

Similarly for people who would deny India credit for their performance in Australia. I asked Marc regarding it and he quitely did not answer it when he was stating Australian bowling was weak vs India.

Frankly, I'm loving the situation. All the excuses people trotted out for discrediting Indias performance in Australia are equally applicable here. Plus this is on Home territory.

 

[SJS]

Similarly for people who would deny India credit for their performance in Australia.

Absolutely