Harbhajan's Chucking row - more BS

[JustTool]

So now, when you have no evidence, you isinuate to detroy bowlers. And curiously enough all the bowlers malined are from the sub-con: Murali, Shoaib and now Harbhajan. Beleive me, Brett Lee's action is far worse than Shoaib's...

These referees and umpires should be fired for making such unsubstantiated crap public

Bhajji's bowling: Yeh kya chucker hai?
By: Debasish Datta
December 4, 2004
---------------------------------------------------------------

REPRIEVE:
Harbhajan Singh
Kolkata: Harbhajan Singh’s suspect bowling action during the second Test against South Africa will not be reported to the International Cricket Council for want of thorough evidence.

But New Zealand match referee Jeff Crowe stressed yesterday that he and umpires Daryl Harper and Simon Taufel, who officiated in the second Test match between India and South Africa that concluded in Kolkata, had doubts over his action.
“We had a doubt over his action. So we decided to check it. But after viewing the videotapes, we found that we could not come up with anything concrete.

There was no way we could determine the degree of flexion with the naked eye,” Crowe said.

The videotapes were acquired from the Cricket Association of Bengal. But the trio could not determine whether the degree of flexion was more than 15 degrees.

Harbhajan Singh was surprised when he learnt that his action had come under the scanner again.

“I have played 41 Test matches with the same bowling action. So it is surprising they should suspect the action now. Also, Harper has been an umpire in many Tests I have played,” Harbhajan said from Delhi yesterday.

“I am happy and relieved that the umpires will not be reporting my action,”
he added.

 

[Langeveldt]

We feel so sorry for you cricketers on the subcontinent.. Forever persecuted, no representation on the ICC panels.. It must suck having to get out of bed every morning.. Go cry me a river.

 

[viktor]

So now, when you have no evidence, you isinuate to detroy bowlers. And curiously enough all the bowlers malined are from the sub-con: Murali, Shoaib and now Harbhajan. Beleive me, Brett Lee's action is far worse than Shoaib's...

These referees and umpires should be fired for making such unsubstantiated crap public

Bhajji's bowling: Yeh kya chucker hai?
By: Debasish Datta
December 4, 2004
---------------------------------------------------------------

REPRIEVE:
Harbhajan Singh
Kolkata: Harbhajan Singh’s suspect bowling action during the second Test against South Africa will not be reported to the International Cricket Council for want of thorough evidence.

But New Zealand match referee Jeff Crowe stressed yesterday that he and umpires Daryl Harper and Simon Taufel, who officiated in the second Test match between India and South Africa that concluded in Kolkata, had doubts over his action.
“We had a doubt over his action. So we decided to check it. But after viewing the videotapes, we found that we could not come up with anything concrete.

There was no way we could determine the degree of flexion with the naked eye,” Crowe said.

The videotapes were acquired from the Cricket Association of Bengal. But the trio could not determine whether the degree of flexion was more than 15 degrees.

Harbhajan Singh was surprised when he learnt that his action had come under the scanner again.

“I have played 41 Test matches with the same bowling action. So it is surprising they should suspect the action now. Also, Harper has been an umpire in many Tests I have played,” Harbhajan said from Delhi yesterday.

“I am happy and relieved that the umpires will not be reporting my action,”
he added.

C'mon dude, just chuck it! there is no controversy. the newspapers are creating one.

 

[Buddhmaster]

I don't know how anyone can say that anyone is a bigger chucker then Shoib?

 

[SJS]

Without getting into who chucks and who doesnt, it has always amazed me how selective 'vision' can be in different parts of the world !

A Pakistani is scandalised if anyone mentions Shoaib throws but so many non-Pakistanis seem to be absolutely certain that he does, an Australian will kill you (if words and sarcasm could) if you so much as hinted on the possibility of 'illegality' of Lee's action but there are plenty of non Australians who are convinced that he does flout the law, an Indian fan is outraged if you mention Harbhajan's name in the above august company and a Sri Lankan is disgusted by all this hoo-haa about the great Murali and his action believing it to be the great white conspiracy.

Everyone is convinced they are right while others are biased or visually challenged. AND everyone swears by his/her objectivity !!

Clearly opinions are coloured less by objectivity and more by nationality and passion.

 

[honestbharani]

Without getting into who chucks and who doesnt, it has always amazed me how selective 'vision' can be in different parts of the world !

A Pakistani is scandalised if anyone mentions Shoaib throws but so many non-Pakistanis seem to be absolutely certain that he does, an Australian will kill you (if words and sarcasm could) if you so much as hinted on the possibility of 'illegality' of Lee's action but there are plenty of non Australians who are convinced that he does flout the law, an Indian fan is outraged if you mention Harbhajan's name in the above august company and a Sri Lankan is disgusted by all this hoo-haa about the great Murali and his action believing it to be the great white conspiracy.

Everyone is convinced they are right while others are biased or visually challenged. AND everyone swears by his/her objectivity !!

Clearly opinions are coloured less by objectivity and more by nationality and passion.

That is always going to be case in a game played by teams which are representing their respective countries.



On another note, the ICC have denied these rumours. So we must let it go now, IMHO.

 

[Buddhmaster]

Without getting into who chucks and who doesnt, it has always amazed me how selective 'vision' can be in different parts of the world !

A Pakistani is scandalised if anyone mentions Shoaib throws but so many non-Pakistanis seem to be absolutely certain that he does, an Australian will kill you (if words and sarcasm could) if you so much as hinted on the possibility of 'illegality' of Lee's action but there are plenty of non Australians who are convinced that he does flout the law, an Indian fan is outraged if you mention Harbhajan's name in the above august company and a Sri Lankan is disgusted by all this hoo-haa about the great Murali and his action believing it to be the great white conspiracy.

Everyone is convinced they are right while others are biased or visually challenged. AND everyone swears by his/her objectivity !!

Clearly opinions are coloured less by objectivity and more by nationality and passion.

Good point, but i must say i'm a little suspect of Lee's action. I don't think he necessarily chucks it, but i can see how people would say it.

 

[SJS]

That is always going to be case in a game played by teams which are representing their respective countries.



On another note, the ICC have denied these rumours. So we must let it go now, IMHO.

Yes I suppose so. But then we should give up the veneer of objectivity that is so vehemently claimed by many.

I disagree that this need be the case. Not with those who would like to be termed as 'students' of the game.

It should be posible to discuss cricketing matters, legality, skills etc dispassionately. Of course, we all deserve our passion and need to display it when supporting our teams on the grounsd and even in front of the telly. But when we come here for what, I presume, is supposed to be an intelligent and informed exchange of views, passion does not have a place.

This is just my opinion. It need not be the majority view.

 

[SJS]

Good point, but i must say i'm a little suspect of Lee's action. I don't think he necessarily chucks it, but i can see how people would say it.

I think his action is now very good. He might be contravening the law (the original law) occasionaly but it is not something I have noticed of late and it would not appear to be deliberate.

Shoaib's action, with due regard to my Pakistani friends here is slightly more dubious and I am sure most batsmen who face him would feel the same.

Murali clearly bends his arm and for me that contravenes the old law. Rest is semantics and technicalities. I sympathise with his physical constraints but I think going for the doosra, which is impossible to bowl with a straight arm, is further showing a disregard for the rules because he could get away with the reason of his hyper-extension problem.

When someone like Harbhajan will bowl the doosra, it will not give him the protection of the hyper extension argument. I think this is not fair by any stretch of imagination.

Again, these are my views and are purely based on the original law. I dont think much of ICC's new , convoluted, ammendments to the same. Before anyone jumps on me, I realise that what I think of ICC's new law doesnt count. But again this is my point of view.

On Harbhajan, if he continues to bowl the doosra, I dont think how he will not contravene the old law. The new one gives some leway to everyone but I dont understand how a bowler can so accurately ensure the angle by which he bends his elbow in a game ! So they will all try it and hope they are within 15 degrees. This is a pathetic situation and Sunil Gavaskar and his committee need to be roundly condemned by all cricket lovers.

Harbhajan

 

[Buddhmaster]

I don't think Harbhajan's action as anywhere near as bad as Murali's.

 

[SJS]

I don't think Harbhajan's action as anywhere near as bad as Murali's.

Of course it is not. In fact , Harbhajan is not going to be called by any umpire under the old regulation also, so clean is his normal action. I am just expressing the apprehension that if he insists on bowling the doosra in Murali's style then he will get into that territory but with the new regulation it is an unlikely one to be called.

Murali , on the other hand, would be called for almost all his deliveries under the old regime. This may be partially or wholly due to the hyper-extension problem, I dont want to claim to be an expert on that. But visually it would appear to be a bending of the elbow and many umpires would have called it.

 

[Slow Love™]

In-game testing is the only way to resolve these types of situations. The technology is now available, so if umpires/referees consider an action doubtful enough, they should have access to systems that would enable them to check their perceptions.

When I first heard about the "report", all I could think was that Harbhajan had better straighten by more than 15 degrees, or this would explode. So I think it's good that upon reviewing the tapes, they withdrew their complaint. If they can't perceive it on the tapes, odds are they can't perceive it clearly in split seconds at the ground.

As it is, by the end of it all, it seems like a storm in a teacup.

 

[Buddhmaster]

Why do they have to bowl the doosra. Both Murali and Harbhajan are capable of getting alot of wickets without this "delivery", so why bother?

 

[SJS]

Why do they have to bowl the doosra. Both Murali and Harbhajan are capable of getting alot of wickets without this "delivery", so why bother?

I agree. It is a better bet to bowl the away floater like Prasanna used to bowl but it moves less off the wicket than the doosra.

 

[Buddhmaster]

I was just wondering, was the doosra at one time banned?

 

[SJS]

I was just wondering, was the doosra at one time banned?

It was 'invented' by Saqlain. So its a recent phenomenon.

Actually, it is well known to most people who play indoor cricket and bowl from short distance where chucking is allowed as long as you dont bowl fast. We used it very often during the days when rain used to interfere with a game and we played these impromptu games inside the pavillion.

You basically take the ball in your hand and with your palm (with the ball) facing your face, you threw the ball towards the batsmen with a kind of a snapping-of-fingers type of action. It always looks like you are bowling an off break because the movement of the wrist is in the clockwise direction as in the case of an off break. But since the ball is facing upwards and backwards, the movement, in relation to the ground id in the other direction, if you see what I mean. It always foxed the batsmen particularly those who were not used to it. I recall being totally flumoxed by it when I first saw this chucked off break break away like a huge leg break. That was forty years ago !!

 

[Buddhmaster]

So it is abviously chucked?

And how old are you SJS?

 

[marc71178]

When I first heard about the "report", all I could think was that Harbhajan had better straighten by more than 15 degrees, or this would explode. So I think it's good that upon reviewing the tapes, they withdrew their complaint.

I didn't think there was actually ever a complaint though?

 

[Slow Love™]

I didn't think there was actually ever a complaint though?

Poorly worded - I should have said "withdrew from making a complaint".

 

[Son Of Coco]

I was just wondering, was the doosra at one time banned?

I think it'd be impossible to ban a ball, you can only look at the action used by individuals to bowl it.