PlayerComparisons
International Vice-Captain
Two openers
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Graham Gooch vs Graeme Smith
- Thread starter PlayerComparisons
- Start date
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
Smith.
Better spelling of his name too, although Grahame is my favourite.
Better spelling of his name too, although Grahame is my favourite.
PlayerComparisons
International Vice-Captain
Was Gooch the best batsmen against the ATG Windies attack?
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Nah, Gavaskar was the best followed by Greg Chappell
BazBall21
International Captain
Gavaskar was much better overall. But Gooch was better against the WI juggernaut. Chappell's magnum opus against them came in WSC.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Gavaskar had two 2 Great serieses against that Windies team and without his debut tour averaged over 55 against them; Gooch averaged 44. He had his moments, but I think Gavaskar was overall better against that team.
BazBall21
International Captain
Gavaskar had one tour against the juggernaut and did very little of note outside Bourda. Any hundred against that lot is very creditable. But it was on a slower wicket with the game petering out to a draw. That's not as impressive as hundreds on the spiciest Caribbean tracks (Jamaica+Barbados) where both times you score more than 50% of your team's runs.
In Gavaskar's home series against the juggernaut (1983), he managed a great double at the end. He was averaging 26 in five tests before that. Gooch scored tons at home to WI in 1980 and 1988 with good series averages, before finishing with a more consistent series than Sunny managed against them; which included one of the greatest ever Test innings.
Gavaskar's magnum opus series' against the Windies were the 1971 tour and 78/79 at home. They were significantly weaker attacks. Gooch didn't get that opportunity. His test career coincided entirely with the Windies powerhouse era.
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PlayerComparisons
International Vice-Captain
Yea I reckon Gooch was the best against them. Crowe was good too
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
There was also the 1974 tour against prime Holding and Garner, and Gavaskar averaged over 50 in that series; the 78 home series, though that was against a weaker attack but still comprising of Marshall, Sylvester Clarke and Vanburn Holder (avg over 90); be failed the most in the 83' tour with only one century and nothing more to boost but in the 83' home series, he ended the series with an average of 56 and more importantly he scored a double century, a century and a fifty; those 3 being the matches India managed to draw. Imo if someone played against the quartet best in Windies, it was Amarnath in that 83 tour (who then went on to **** himself in the home series). As I said, Gooch had some of the very best innings, but he struggled with consistency.
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BazBall21
International Captain
I've already explained why I don't rate Gavaskar's series in 84 as high as Gooch's general work at home to WI. Or in fact as high as Gooch's series in 91 alone.
Gooch's general inconsistency (mainly against Australia) is why Gavaskar overall is much better. But against the West Indies, Gooch was actually very consistent. Gavaskar against peak WI was anything but consistent. Feast or famine.
Regarding 78, Gooch never got to face a relatively ordinary WI attack like that. That series doesn't even really have much to do with the point of discussion, which is who was better against the awesome foursome.
Sylvester Clarke was definitely good, but he didn't make their strongest attacks. Ditto Vanburn Holder who was nothing more than a decent test bowler. Marshall was just starting out and learning on the job. The start of his glory days came a long while later. He wouldn't even have been in the team back then if it wasn't for WSC.
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capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
In that 91 series, I personally think Robin Smith was better. But yeah , Gooch was a beast in 91 and 80. The thing is Gooch's overall average against West Indies is very ordinary. And I also went over already why I rate Gavaskar's 74 tour and 83 home series quite highly. Gooch I think is definitely close to Gavaskar's exploits against an ATG Windies line-up; but I would probably still put Gavaskar ahead.
BazBall21
International Captain
Could equally argue Vengsarkar was better than Gavaskar in 1983. Amarnath was obviously better on the tour.
Gooch opened against the West Indies in two heavily pace-orientated countries across 51 innings. Virtually every time it was a four-pronged all-star juggernaut bowling to him. To say an average of 45 under those circumstances is "very ordinary" is just wrong. He did better against them than the likes of Border, Miandad, Gower and, yes, Gavaskar.