Graeme Pollock vs Barry Richards

[Johan]

The Greatest batsmen of South Africa of the 60s and 70s?

 

[sayon basak]

In Rebel tours:-
Graeme Pollock:- 1376 runs @65.52
Barry Richards:- 252 runs @28

For RoW:-
Graeme Pollock:- 517 runs @27.21
Barry Richards:- 338 runs @37.55

 

[subshakerz]

Both rated somewhat equally but Pollock by default of having at least somewhat of an intl career.

 

[The Sean]

An interesting link to one of the other threads about greatest "Test" innings, specifically Gary Sobers' incredible knock of 254 for RoW against Australia and the eternal question of whether those two series should be officially recognised as Tests.

Whereas the likes of Sobers, Lillee and the Chappell brothers would see their career numbers improve with the inclusion of those matches, these two blokes definitely wouldn't want them recognised from a statistical point of view.

Pollock's Test record would go from:
23 Tests, 2,256 runs at 60.97, to
31 Tests, 2,715 runs at 54.30.

Richards' Test record would go from:
4 Tests, 508 runs at 72.57, to
9 Tests, 765 runs at 54.64.

 

[Johan]

Both rated somewhat equally but Pollock by default of having at least somewhat of an intl career.

it's a 7 year career

 

[subshakerz]

it's a 7 year career

Yes it's admissable as evidence

 

[DrWolverine]

An interesting link to one of the other threads about greatest "Test" innings, specifically Gary Sobers' incredible knock of 254 for RoW against Australia and the eternal question of whether those two series should be officially recognised as Tests.

Whereas the likes of Sobers, Lillee and the Chappell brothers would see their career numbers improve with the inclusion of those matches, these two blokes definitely wouldn't want them recognised from a statistical point of view.

Pollock's Test record would go from:
23 Tests, 2,256 runs at 60.97, to
31 Tests, 2,715 runs at 54.30.

Richards' Test record would go from:
4 Tests, 508 runs at 72.57, to
9 Tests, 765 runs at 54.64.

Pollock would not like it for sure since he would not have the mythical average of 60+ and 2000 runs

 

[sayon basak]

Pollock would not like it for sure since he would not have the mythical average of 60+ and 2000 runs

He would if you added his rebel tour stats, where he scored 1376 runs @65.52.

 

[Johan]

Pollock is South Africa's greatest Batsmen if you ask me.

 

[sayon basak]

Pollock is South Africa's greatest Batsmen.

I think that is the consensus, even in CW.

 

[subshakerz]

He would if you added his rebel tour stats, where he scored 1376 runs @65.52.

I think we can argue those were near intl standard and quite impressive that Pollock was still scoring well in the 80s.

 

[subshakerz]

I think that is the consensus, even in CW.

Not according to Kyear.

 

[ankitj]

Been done before

 

[The Sean]

He would if you added his rebel tour stats, where he scored 1376 runs @65.52.

Almost. If you added both his RoW matches and also his rebel tour matches to his official Test record, he ends up with 4,091 runs at 57.62.

Bloody impressive nonetheless, and feels like the kind of Test record Pollock "should" have, if that makes sense. I don't personally think the rebel tours were as high a standard of cricket as the RoW series, but the fact that Pollock was continuing to score heavily against international class bowlers into his 40s was testament to his quality.

 

[sayon basak]

Not quite. If you added both his RoW matches and also his rebel tour matches to his official Test record, he ends up with 4,091 runs at 57.62.

I meant he would be happy, as four thousand runs @58 is great.

BTW the numbers I have look something like this:-

in Tests:-
23 matches; 2256 runs @60.97

In Rebel tours:-
16 matches; 1376 runs @65.52

In RoW tour of England:-
8 matches; 308 runs @22

In RoW tour of Australia:-
3 matches; 209 runs @41.8

Total:- 50 matches; 4149 runs @53.88

Am I missing anything?

 

[The Sean]

I meant he would be happy, as four thousand runs @58 is great.

BTW the numbers I have looks something like this:-

in Tests:-
23 matches; 2256 runs @60.97

In Rebel tours:-
16 matches; 1376 runs @65.52

In RoW tour of England:-
8 matches; 308 runs @22

In RoW tour of Australia:-
3 matches; 209 runs @41.8

In Australian XI tour of South Africa:-
2 matches; 210 runs @105

Total:- 52 matches; 4359 runs @55.18

Am I missing anything?

That's largely what I have, with a couple of discrepancies. Where did you get the England tour numbers from? It was a five match series and he made 250 runs at 31. There weren't any other "Tests" played by RoW in England.

And I'm not sure what you mean by the two matches he played on the Australian XI tour of South Africa - are these different to the rebel tours?

 

[Johan]

I meant he would be happy, as four thousand runs @58 is great.

BTW the numbers I have look something like this:-

in Tests:-
23 matches; 2256 runs @60.97

In Rebel tours:-
16 matches; 1376 runs @65.52

In RoW tour of England:-
8 matches; 308 runs @22

In RoW tour of Australia:-
3 matches; 209 runs @41.8

In Australian XI tour of South Africa:-
2 matches; 210 runs @105

Total:- 52 matches; 4359 runs @55.18

Am I missing anything?

for reference, Sobers averaged 80+ in this tour, while being post prime.

 

[Coronis]

Been done before

Yes you did it back in 2010. And it got bumped a month ago.


Anyway its Pollock. At worst they had comparable performances. Pollock however played first class cricket over a period of 26 years, scoring a ton and 4 fifties in his first season at 16 and 2 tons and 3 fifties in his final season at age 43, including a run out 50 in his debut first class innings and a not out 50 in his final first class innings.

One was a standout in his first season and his last season, at a younger and older age. One took a few years to come good, had a decline at the end of his career, retired and had a shitty comeback.

Based on a longer test career, longer first class career with far more sustained success, I don’t see how one could pick Richards tbh.

 

[sayon basak]

That's largely what I have, with a couple of discrepancies. Where did you get the England tour numbers from? It was a five match series and he made 250 runs at 31. There weren't any other "Tests" played by RoW in England.

And I'm not sure what you mean by the two matches he played on the Australian XI tour of South Africa - are these different to the rebel tours?

Sorry I counted the 86/87 AUSXI tour twice.

And this is the 1968 RoW series that I counted along with the 1970 one.

Rest of the World XI tour of England 1968 Statistics | ESPNcricinfo

Take a look at all the Rest of the World XI tour of England 1968 Statistics. Discover Rest of the World XI tour of England Statistics on player records, team performances, and more on ESPNcricninfo

www.espncricinfo.com

 

[The Sean]

I was having a look at Barry's record in English FC cricket (and am aware of the stories of disinterest which he showed in contests he felt weren't testing him, but anyway...), and I was really surprised at how poor his conversion rate was.

Richards played in England most seasons from 1965 to 1978 - during that period he passed 50 in 133 FC innings, but converted only 40 of them into tons.

He had four seasons in particular where his conversion (or lack thereof) was extraordinary for a player of his class - across the 1968, 1970, 1971 and 1975 English FC seasons, Richards passed 50 on 73 occasions and went on to three figures in just 13 of them.