Do New Zealand have the worst luck with fast bowlers?

[Craig]

It seems that way. Anytime we get anybody good or decent, or even very promising they get struck down by an injury, and then are riddled with injuries for the rest of the career. As a result New Zealand never got the best out of Dion Nash, Shayne O'Connor, Chris Cairns (as a bowler), and Geoff Allott because they were struck down with injury so much. Shane Bond can barely stay on the field for more then five minutes, especially in Tests, and as some have said, one of cricket's 'what-ifs', and something we will never know. And then we have a guy like Iain O'Brien who has now quit all NZ cricket to start a new life in England with his wife. Although he was injury prone, he did get the best out of himself and his stats don't tell the true story. Chris Martin is 35 and can't go on forever.

I can't think of too many countries where they have had such a problem with their fast bowlers and so many injuries. Why does this happen, and what is being done to stop it from happening?

 

[bryce]

Hard to say I guess South Africa lost a couple of really promising ones too in Brett Schultz and Mfuneko Ngam

 

[Richard]

I know little about Schultz but there's far from strong evidence of how good Ngam might've been. There's pretty strong evidence of the potential of the likes of Doull, Allott, Nash, Cairns, O'Connor, Bond, Franklin etc. which they were never really allowed to fulfill due to lack of fitness.

Certainly if anyone has had worse luck with injury to their seamers in the last ~10-15 years than New Zealand I'll be astonished. Most sides have had some misfortune (South Africa possibly with Schultz and certainly with Terbrugge and Hayward; England with Fraser, Gough, Headley, Simon Jones etc.; West Indies with King and potentially Taylor; Pakistan with Shoaib and several others; there's really only Australia who generally produce more than a modicum of seam-bowling talent who've not suffered all that much in recent times, and it's no coincidence that said luck with lack of injury has coincided with good results) but New Zealand seems certainly to me to have been worst-hit.

 

[silentstriker]

Better than not having them at all. You had Hadlee, stop complaining.

 

[Scaly piscine]

New Zealand just have so little depth that when someone goes down it's highlighted. They also don't play as much high profile cricket to take over the headlines. So someone like Bond remains big news for quite a while. It is the perception taken from the media coverage that makes it sound disproportionate.

England for instance had guys like Tudor just fade away without much interest. If he had been a Black Cap that would have been a big thing. There are also players who may have not been picked partly because they were injury prone - guys like Mark Davies - in NZ anyone with the slighest bit of talent gets picked regardless of anything else.

 

[Richard]

England for instance had guys like Tudor just fade away without much interest.

Yeah, nah, there's been no interest at all in Tudor and his constant injury woes.

 

[Matt79]

Smaller pool to draw players from means that an injury cruelling the career of a world class prospect stands out more and hurts more.

 

[Richard]

I really don't agree. A top-class prospect (not sure O'Connor quite was one of them but all the rest were for mine) whose chances are ruined by injury is always going to be big news. Of course it's going to be a bigger loss for a team with smaller talent pool than one with bigger, but the idea that the loss of players will be highlighted more in New Zealand than for example South Africa or England is arrant nonsense, nothing less.

 

[Matt79]

So you agree with my point and then call it arrant nonsense without explaining why, or why you're contradicting yourself in the space of one post. Started drinking early?

Can't see how you can argue that the loss of a test standard quick is NOT going to hurt more if you don't have similar standard replacements.

 

[Richard]

So you agree with my point and then call it arrant nonsense without explaining why, or why you're contradicting yourself in the space of one post. Started drinking early?

Nope - not planning on drinking anything in the next few days. It was more Beevs' "point" than yours that I was calling arrant nonsense - I agree with part of what you were saying (that it's going to hurt more) and don't agree with the other (that it stands-out more). That's not contradicting oneself.

 

[Top_Cat]

Doull top class potential? Come on. Rich de Groen FTW.

As for SA, let's not forget Tertius Bosch too. As quick as Donald but cut-down. I saw Ngam bowl and, while he was a bit erratic, the guy bowled like the wind. Gave everyone he faced the hurry-up.

 

[aussie]

It seems that way. Anytime we get anybody good or decent, or even very promising they get struck down by an injury, and then are riddled with injuries for the rest of the career. As a result New Zealand never got the best out of Dion Nash, Shayne O'Connor, Chris Cairns (as a bowler), and Geoff Allott because they were struck down with injury so much. Shane Bond can barely stay on the field for more then five minutes, especially in Tests, and as some have said, one of cricket's 'what-ifs', and something we will never know. And then we have a guy like Iain O'Brien who has now quit all NZ cricket to start a new life in England with his wife. Although he was injury prone, he did get the best out of himself and his stats don't tell the true story. Chris Martin is 35 and can't go on forever.

I can't think of too many countries where they have had such a problem with their fast bowlers and so many injuries. Why does this happen, and what is being done to stop it from happening?

Dont forget Simon Doull & Oram as an all-rounder. The sad thing about it is that most of them have come in the last decade. At one point around 199-2004 (NZ two tours to ENG 99-04), if all those bowlers where fit at some point they could have played this potential XI & it could have been the best in NZ history.

Richardson
Fleming
Styris
Astle
McMillan
Oram
Cairns
Parore
Vettori
Bond
Allot

12th man: Nash

POWER TEAM!!!

 

[Craig]

Better than not having them at all. You had Hadlee, stop complaining.

India had Kail Dev. Not like every Indian bowler has been a pie chucker.

 

[Polo23]

I think our winter and training facilities plays a big part. Having to train and play on concrete pitches throughout the winter/early season is incredibly tough on a fast bowler. I don't know too many places in the world where top class fast bowlers are training on concrete throughout winter.

Australia is probably the perfect place to breed a cricketer, the weather is generally good enough to play cricket outdoors all year round.

 

[Top_Cat]

I think our winter and training facilities plays a big part. Having to train and play on concrete pitches throughout the winter/early season is incredibly tough on a fast bowler. I don't know too many places in the world where top class fast bowlers are training on concrete throughout winter.

Didn't know this. Has to be a huge factor when you consider the injuries too.

 

[NUFAN]

I think if you only include fast bowlers who actually played some Tests/ODIs than NZ would win for sure. Australia has had some hard luck stories to some decent bowlers that never got the chance to play for Australia, players such as Gerard Denton for instance.

 

[Richard]

India had Kail Dev. Not like every Indian bowler has been a pie chucker.

Hadlee R > Kapil Dev though I think was the point he was making. Kapil like Hadlee R stands-out by miles from the crowd in terms of his own country, but India's best was merely very good; New Zealand's best was up with the finest ever.

 

[Andrew Pollock]

Dont forget Simon Doull & Oram as an all-rounder. The sad thing about it is that most of them have come in the last decade. At one point around 199-2004 (NZ two tours to ENG 99-04), if all those bowlers where fit at some point they could have played this potential XI & it could have been the best in NZ history.

Richardson
Fleming
Styris
Astle
McMillan
Oram
Cairns
Parore
Vettori
Bond
Allot

12th man: Nash

POWER TEAM!!!

No Chris Harris?

 

[Richard]

Doull top class potential? Come on. Rich de Groen FTW.

In my estimation Doull had what it takes to be a good Test bowler. His early Test performances pre-injury tend to back that up. Certainly not capable of Bond-style excellence but a fine bowler and a considerable loss.

As for SA, let's not forget Tertius Bosch too. As quick as Donald but cut-down.

Never even knew that. Thought he just fell out of favour and was more concerned with his profession of dentistry than cricket.

I saw Ngam bowl and, while he was a bit erratic, the guy bowled like the wind. Gave everyone he faced the hurry-up.

Yeah but so has Brett Lee always done - heck I remember you saying Greg Blewett did so a little while back. Ngam certainly had some fine natural assets but he's far from the first very-quick bowler to excite loads of people - many turn-out to be nothing of note and from what I saw of Ngam I reckon he'd have been more likely to go that way than become top-class.

 

[Andrew Pollock]

Just looked up Tertius Bosch on cricinfo
http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/content/player/44097.html
Sad story