Dennis Lillee vs Courtney Walsh

[DrWolverine]

Lillee


Walsh

 

[ataraxia]

It's perpetually hilarious how Lillee flunks both analysis by checklist and standardised averages.

 

[Burgey]

SL helping to bring both of them undone is hilarious.

Never realised Walsh was pretty meh in Aus.

 

[DrWolverine]

Two different people
Two different bowlers

 

[Qlder]

Anyone marking Lillee down for his Pakistan effort have no idea what the pitches were like on that tour. Pakistan won the first test and then produced two absolute roads for next 2 tests to ensure draws and a win in the series

So Lillee's 3 wkts @ 101.00 on Pakistan roads means nothing without context, even the great Sarfraz Nawaz on his home pitches only took 2 wkts @ 127.50 in those 3 tests

Here are some batting averages in that series:
Majid Khan - 199.00
Allan Border - 131.66
Taslim Arif - 102.33
Greg Chappell - 76.20
Javed Miandad - 60.33

Those last two Tests had only 36 wickets taken. Here's the scorecards

PAK vs AUS Cricket Scorecard, 2nd Test at Faisalabad, March 06 - 11, 1980

Get cricket scorecard of 2nd Test, PAK vs AUS, Australia tour of Pakistan 1979/80 at Iqbal Stadium, Faisalabad dated March 06 - 11, 1980.

www.espncricinfo.com

PAK vs AUS Cricket Scorecard, 3rd Test at Lahore, March 18 - 23, 1980

Get cricket scorecard of 3rd Test, PAK vs AUS, Australia tour of Pakistan 1979/80 at Gaddafi Stadium, Lahore dated March 18 - 23, 1980.

www.espncricinfo.com

 

[Coronis]

Hoggard.

 

[subshakerz]

Anyone marking Lillee down for his Pakistan effort have no idea what the pitches were like on that tour. Pakistan won the first test and then produced two absolute roads for next 2 tests to ensure draws and a win in the series

So Lillee's 3 wkts @ 101.00 on Pakistan roads means nothing without context, even the great Sarfraz Nawaz on his home pitches only took 2 wkts @ 127.50 in those 3 tests

Here are some batting averages in that series:
Majid Khan - 199.00
Allan Border - 131.66
Taslim Arif - 102.33
Greg Chappell - 76.20
Javed Miandad - 60.33

Those last two Tests had only 36 of 80 wickets taken. Here's the scorecards

PAK vs AUS Cricket Scorecard, 2nd Test at Faisalabad, March 06 - 11, 1980

Get cricket scorecard of 2nd Test, PAK vs AUS, Australia tour of Pakistan 1979/80 at Iqbal Stadium, Faisalabad dated March 06 - 11, 1980.

www.espncricinfo.com

PAK vs AUS Cricket Scorecard, 3rd Test at Lahore, March 18 - 23, 1980

Get cricket scorecard of 3rd Test, PAK vs AUS, Australia tour of Pakistan 1979/80 at Gaddafi Stadium, Lahore dated March 18 - 23, 1980.

www.espncricinfo.com

I don't mark him down for Pakistan because it is a small sample size. He needed another tour to make a judgment.

However, I agree it was an unusual situation in 79/80 where Lillee couldn't have been expected to deliver much.

Imran faced a similar situation in India in 86/87. He was so successful against India the past two tours home and away that they prepared absolute turgid featherbeds for four tests to neutralise him with a 5th test on a rank turner. And folks like @kyear2 will mark him down for his India record.

 

[subshakerz]

Anyways Lillee is far beyond Walsh.

He was a lethal weapon in Australia and Eng beyond Walsh who was only absolute worldclass level late career.

Yes Lillee has holes in his record but his peer rating and high wickettaking penetration is enough to rank him ahead of Walsh.

 

[Johan]

nobody who saw both thought Walsh was better

 

[Coronis]

nobody who saw both thought Walsh was better

So?

 

[subshakerz]

So?

So he is not better.

 

[Coronis]

So he is not better.

I didn’t say he was. I just think “nobody who saw both play thought x was better” is a stupid argument.

Considering your recent thread on Lord’s XIs I’m surprised you don’t see this.

 

[subshakerz]

I didn’t say he was. I just think “nobody who saw both play thought x was better” is a stupid argument.

Considering your recent thread on Lord’s XIs I’m surprised you don’t see this.

Yeah you can have singular dumb opinions. But if an entire generation of players never even entertained the idea that one cricketer is superior to another, that does say something.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Lillee. Respect Walsh to the max but he's a great bowler where as Lillee is atg.

 

[Coronis]

iirc the vast majority of people thought Jackson was a better batsman than Bradman at the time.

 

[capt_Luffy]

iirc the vast majority of people thought Jackson was a better batsman than Bradman at the time.

I always felt that aspect got overplayed due to his tragic death.

 

[Qlder]

@DrWolverine how come you haven't voted in your own poll? Not the result you expected?

 

[DrWolverine]

@DrWolverine how come you haven't voted in your own poll? Not the result you expected?

I rate Lillee higher than Walsh

 

[DrWolverine]

I rank him around 10-12 among fast bowlers

 

[Coronis]

I always felt that aspect got overplayed due to his tragic death.

iirc before Bradman obviously demolished 1930 and Jackson’s health issues worsened it was by far the prevailing opinion. @peterhrt may be able to shed further light on that.

The subcontinent is widely accepted as the best challenge for a fast bowler.l

I rate Lillee higher than Walsh

Lillee in Asia: 4 matches 6 @ 68.33
Walsh in Asia: 17 matches 77 @ 20.53

Walsh also played for 16 and a half years and played 93% of his possible tests, along with having his peak late in that long long career.

You’ve convinced me tbh. Walsh bandwagon.