Combining ODI and Test records, who are the 5 greatest cricketers ever?

[BazBall21]

I don't agree with that. I do think you are giving Kapil a rather hard time there. He was a player better than his stats suggests on the surface. Had a number of quality innings though very inconsistent and basically carried the bowling of a very weak team on his back. I would rate a durable player who did the same thing all his career over one who was Great at times and **** in others, given both both have identical stats. Hence, in an ATG case, Sachin over Viv or Laxman over Yousuf.
In Tests they were, but Kapil is atleast a tier ahead of everyone of those 3 in ODIs easily.

I'd have all three a long way ahead of Kapil in Test though. Marshall was very good in ODI and Warne/Chappell in ODI. That's enough for me when the gaps in Test are respectively large imo. Not a knock at Kapil. Those three aren't scrubs.

Also in terms of durability, it depends on the player being compared, the extent of their own durability, and the extent of their production when the sun was shining for them.

 

[DrWolverine]

Even if he has the same numbers today Kapil Dev will be considered a top player.

- Bowled 9 overs per match

- Takes 1.1 wickets per match

- A good economy rate(Can anyone adjust his average to this era)

- A bowling average of 27

- A lower order batsman with an average of 23 and a strike rate of 95

 

[DrWolverine]

I would argue you are rather underrating Kapil's bowling. He was a legit Great ODI bowler, as was Imran. Stats seldom is really reflective in ODIs, especially in the late 70s and the 80s.

I meant he wasn’t as good as Garner or Hadlee or Holding.

He was as good as Imran and maybe even better than Botham in one day

 

[capt_Luffy]

I'd have all three a long way ahead of Kapil in Test though. Marshall was very good in ODI and Warne/Chappell in ODI. That's enough for me when the gaps in Test are respectively large imo. Not a knock at Kapil. Those three aren't scrubs.

Also in terms of durability, it depends on the player being compared, the extent of their own durability, and the extent of their production when the sun was shining for them.

I don't think the gap between Kapil and Greg in Tests is necessarily a huge one. The others I can understand, but given both formats have around equal weighing, will go Kapil just over both. Also deserves some points for pioneering the role of a late order basher in ODIs imo.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I meant he wasn’t as good as Garner or Hadlee or Holding.

He was as good as Imran and maybe even better than Botham in one day

Botham was kinda **** in ODIs. Kapil is like 23rd or 24th in my ODI bowlers list. Not necessarily ATG, but much better than merely stats suggests.

 

[BazBall21]

Botham was kinda **** in ODIs. Kapil is like 23rd or 24th in my ODI bowlers list. Not necessarily ATG, but much better than merely stats suggests.

Weren't ODIs in the 80s generally lower scoring?

 

[DrWolverine]

He was an extremely aggressive batsman for the time. Would still be aggressive now of course.

In the 1980s Kapil Dev had a much higher strike rate than Viv Richards. That’s how destructive he was(not saying he was better than Viv )

 

[BazBall21]

I don't think the gap between Kapil and Greg in Tests is necessarily a huge one. The others I can understand, but given both formats have around equal weighing, will go Kapil just over both. Also deserves some points for pioneering the role of a late order basher in ODIs imo.

Fair enough. I would prioritise Test players of their stature that were still very good in ODI.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Weren't ODIs in the 80s generally lower scoring?

It was.

 

[DrWolverine]

 

[DrWolverine]

Weren't ODIs in the 80s generally lower scoring?

Yep

 

[BazBall21]

It was.

Seems interesting that you think Kapil's odi bowling was better than his stats then, unless I've read wrong which is always possible.

 

[Slifer]

Slightly probs. Sachin has the better peak and had more variety. Viv was the superior fielder no doubt (Harper was the best of his era though).

Sachin the odi bowler was no where close to Viv.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Seems interesting that you think Kapil's odi bowling was better than his stats then, unless I've read wrong which is always possible.

Had his stats were in current Era, he would be the GoAT by a fair margin with a 3.7 eco. In respect to his era he was better than his overall stats.

 

[BazBall21]

Had his stats were in current Era, he would be the GoAT by a fair margin with a 3.7 eco. In respect to his era he was better than his overall stats.

Tough to compare. He would have been attacked a lot more in the current era.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Tough to compare. He would have been attacked a lot more in the current era.

That's why I said going by stats in respect to current Era. I am not making that comparison, like at all. I said he was better than his stats in context of his era.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

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What is the criteria for this meaningless list of players?

Why does it not include players like Lance Cairns, Ian Smith, Zaheer Abbas, Rod Marsh, Salim Malik, Clive Lloyd, Glenn Turner, Greg Chappell, Aravinda Da Silva, Botham & Hadlee etc. with excellent strike rates?

 

[Coronis]

What is the criteria for this meaningless list of players?

Why does it not include players like Lance Cairns, Ian Smith, Zaheer Abbas, Rod Marsh, Salim Malik, Clive Lloyd, Glenn Turner, Greg Chappell, Aravinda Da Silva, Botham & Hadlee etc. with excellent strike rates?

Probably a minimum innings/runs thing

 

[DrWolverine]

What is the criteria for this meaningless list of players?

Why does it not include players like Lance Cairns, Ian Smith, Zaheer Abbas, Rod Marsh, Salim Malik, Clive Lloyd, Glenn Turner, Greg Chappell, Aravinda Da Silva, Botham & Hadlee etc. with excellent strike rates?

People who scored more runs than Kapil.

 

[DrWolverine]

Even if you keep the minimum criteria as 1000 runs in 1980s Kapil Dev was the most destructive batsman