Chris Read another chance?

[Richard]

no because only someone who knows nothing about cricket would consider a loss that relied so significantly on the wicket, to result in the same outcome throughout the series. most sane people would have realised that england would have lost 2-0 or 3-0, and they would have been right. and this prediction is coming from you, given that you probably only watched the highlights of it.

I didn't watch as much as I usually watch nowadays, but I still watched a good deal, and England could have done a hell of a lot better second time around in The First Test (albeit there was roughly zero chance of saving the game), and then after Klusener had belted them around St.George's Park. At that point no-one could possibly have conceived that they'd lose just 2-0.

 

[Richard]

what test are you talking about?

Second.

they only have the relevance in that jones has a peanut for a brain.

He certainly batted that series as if he did.

how much of that first 3 did you watch? because if you watched the first 3 closely enough you would have realised that they were the same carefree innings with the same cut shots played in the air and the same drives played upishly and the same trying to hit from ball 1 attitude that really has annoyed me.

I didn't watch as much as I watched in SA, no. I can't believe, though, that on a seaming Headingley track he can have played quite as poorly as he did in most of the SA Tests.
There's ability there, he just needs Duncan Fletcher to give him a bit of refinement.

and flintoff has batted significantly better than him in all of em, there is simply nothing to consider, except jones' place in the test side.

And if anyone thinks Matthew Prior or anyone else can do better (Prior is even worse at going from ball 1) they need their head examined. (No, I'm not accusing you of thinking so) Geirant Jones is the best man for the job, he just needs a bit of work on both aspects of his game. The wicketkeeping thing is simple, he just needs to practice. The batting will probably be a bit harder, but Duncan has cured problems before and I'm confident he can do it again.

 

[Sparky]

Sorry if I'm digging over old ground for my first post but through all this thread Jones supporters haven't mentioned something in his defence that seems quite important; When did Chris Read become infallible? I've seen him drop a catch for England and there's no guarantee he wouldn't in future.

 

[sledger]

Sorry if I'm digging over old ground for my first post but through all this thread Jones supporters haven't mentioned something in his defence that seems quite important; When did Chris Read become infallible? I've seen him drop a catch for England and there's no guarantee he wouldn't in future.

Read = best keeper in world, not counting his batting

 

[Sparky]

Read = best keeper in world, not counting his batting

Sorry, but I don't agree with that either. He's simply not played enough tests to justify such a claim.

 

[sledger]

Sorry, but I don't agree with that either. He's simply not played enough tests to justify such a claim.

well maybe not, but surely he is one of the best "keepers", and not enough tests means that he will just have to play more.

 

[Richard]

Read's a fantastic wicketkeeper (best in World is stretching it a bit I feel) but even the best drop a few catches.
There's no doubt Read is better than Jones, though, even if Jones is rather better than most people seem to realise.

 

[sledger]

hmmm after jones recent drops (although none of them proved costly) critics are beginning to moan about reads exclusion from the side, however jones performance with the bat could prove to be extremely important, not sure read would be able to achieve such a feat myself, myself i am in favour of keeping jones for his batting, the selectors on the other hand....

 

[Barney Rubble]

Read = best keeper in world, not counting his batting

Better than Taibu? Gilchrist? Sangakkara? Don't think so.

 

[luckyeddie]

Whether or not he looked unconvincing on plenty of occasions he scored some runs - at an average of 30.
He might have been unconvincing, but he has certainly not made a fool of himself.

Yoinks!

 

[luckyeddie]

hmmm after jones recent drops (although none of them proved costly) critics are beginning to moan about reads exclusion from the side, however jones performance with the bat could prove to be extremely important, not sure read would be able to achieve such a feat myself, myself i am in favour of keeping jones for his batting, the selectors on the other hand....

The worrying thing about the dropped catches is that it undermines confidence if you let it. England have had one desperately shoddy game catching (yet conversely an impressive one ground-fielding) and whatever the outcome, should just put it behind them, although until someone (Jones or Pietersen) picks up a belter, the doubts will linger.

Over the last couple of years, England's catching has been right up there. Maybe this was just 'one of those games' - and even Bob Taylor once dropped a dolly at Lord's.

 

[Hoggy31]

Better than Taibu? Gilchrist? Sangakkara? Don't think so.

I've always thought Sangakkara was a rather sloppy keeper

 

[Shane Warne]

If some of you think Jone's batting average of 31 or whatever it is, is good enough for him to drop catches then you may as well just let Trescothick keep and bring in an extra specialist batsman in place of Jones.

 

[Shane Warne]

England have had one desperately shoddy game catching (yet conversely an impressive one ground-fielding).

They wern't so hot in the second innings, although I see your point.

Off the top of my head I remember basic errors by Hoggard and S. Jones which cost about 6 runs when the ball went right through them at not great pace.

 

[marc71178]

Better than Taibu? Gilchrist? Sangakkara? Don't think so.

Better by Gilchrist for sure.

 

[Dasa]

Better than Taibu? Gilchrist? Sangakkara? Don't think so.

Better than Gilchrist and Sangakarra definitely. From the little I've seen of Read, his 'keeping technique is just so good that he makes it look easy. He may not be flashy, but he's brilliant. Taibu looks similar from what I've seen as well.

 

[Richard]

I've always thought Sangakkara was a rather sloppy keeper

He was.
Then came the winter of 2001\02, and from then on he was a pretty darn good one.

 

[Richard]

The worrying thing about the dropped catches is that it undermines confidence if you let it. England have had one desperately shoddy game catching (yet conversely an impressive one ground-fielding) and whatever the outcome, should just put it behind them, although until someone (Jones or Pietersen) picks up a belter, the doubts will linger.

Over the last couple of years, England's catching has been right up there. Maybe this was just 'one of those games' - and even Bob Taylor once dropped a dolly at Lord's.

How many times have we seen catching go from good to poor at the start of or just before an Ashes (or from average to abysmal, too - 2002\03 for instance)? Lots.
This is probably another, and it'll go from bad to worse before getting better once the series is lost most likely.
The great thing about this game is that we dropped 6 catches and 5 were utterly inconsequential.
Just a shame the other might possibly have cost the match.

 

[Richard]

hmmm after jones recent drops (although none of them proved costly) critics are beginning to moan about reads exclusion from the side, however jones performance with the bat could prove to be extremely important, not sure read would be able to achieve such a feat myself, myself i am in favour of keeping jones for his batting, the selectors on the other hand....

The very worst thing that could be done after 1 match of a series is make panic changes.
If Jones keeps failing to score runs (and with shots like his second-innings one it's not impossible) then there may be a case - but for Heaven's sake not yet.
If we're going to lose the series (and we a...) we'd do best not lose it with the typical air of chop-and-change.