Chris Martin replaces Tuffey

[ohtani's jacket]

Harry is probably my favourite cricketer ever, but does he really deserve a call up? I've been in Japan for a year, so I have no idea.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Harry is probably my favourite cricketer ever, but does he really deserve a call up? I've been in Japan for a year, so I have no idea.

On the back of his 425* the other day, of course he does!

 

[pup11]

Aren't there any young talented fast bowlers in New Zealand, i mean Chris Martin is far from being an odi bowler.

What has happened to Ian Butler?

 

[Fiery]

Aren't there any young talented fast bowlers in New Zealand

ummm...no

 

[Richard]

What has happened to Ian Butler?

Same as happened to Simon Doull, Geoff Allot, Dion Nash, Shayne O'Connor, Chris Cairns to an extent, Daryl Tuffey to an extent, Jacob Oram to an extent...

I'll stop before I send any Kiwis spiralling into depression.

Difference, though, is Butler was never (IMO) as good as any of the above.

 

[Richard]

I'd love to see Chris Martin get interviewed straight after a duck and him to come out with the line "Nobody said it was easy..."

Just open up his i-i-i-i-i-i-eyes.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Aren't there any young talented fast bowlers in New Zealand, i mean Chris Martin is far from being an odi bowler.

What has happened to Ian Butler?

You'd pick Butler ahead of Martin?

 

[_Ed_]

Difference, though, is Butler was never (IMO) as good as any of the above.

Agreed.

 

[pup11]

I think Chris Martin is really a poor odi bowler or let me say he is a poor odi player since he is not an agile fielder and we all know he is hopeless with the bat.

I was just asking what happened to Butler because he just vanished from the scene, i am not saying that he is(was) a great talent or select him ahead of Martin.

I was just suprised to see that the next best fast-bowling option in NZ after Tuffey is Martin.

 

[vic_orthdox]

I believe Butler's had a series of back problems, and has played a few games as a batsman in club cricket (I think), might have bowled some off-spinners too. Not sure if he's back bowling quicks yet.

From what I saw of him, although he got it through alright, he never was able to extract any movement, and his radar wasn't up to standard.

 

[Prince EWS]

Butler had quite a lot of potential but really did squat all with it throughout his career for various reasons - and applies to domestic cricket as well.

 

[Perm]

I believe Butler's had a series of back problems, and has played a few games as a batsman in club cricket (I think), might have bowled some off-spinners too. Not sure if he's back bowling quicks yet.

Don't think he ever got back to bowling with any real pace, he was definately playing club cricket in Northern Districts as a batsman though, I doubt he'll be much good.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Butler had quite a lot of potential but really did squat all with it throughout his career for various reasons - and applies to domestic cricket as well.

From what I saw of him, pace was the only basis of his potential. There are many quick bowlers who will never amount to anything, so I wouldn't say he had "quite a lot of potential".

 

[Prince EWS]

From what I saw of him, pace was the only basis of his potential. There are many quick bowlers who will never amount to anything, so I wouldn't say he had "quite a lot of potential".

At his best, Butler bowled significant outswing at pace. He was also reasonably accurate as well at said best - it just all came along with with ridiculous inconsistency, brain-dead bowling and injury concerns.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

At his best, Butler bowled significant outswing at pace. He was also reasonably accurate as well at said best - it just all came along with with ridiculous inconsistency, brain-dead bowling and injury concerns.

There are a lot of quick bowlers who can swing the ball and bowl with accuracy at their best. The thing is, Butler never even hinted that he could do it consistently enough to be anything approaching international class. Most bowlers can bowl very well. Most bowlers cannot bowl very well consistently. I think you have to at least suggest that you can do something consistently before you're labeled with genuine potential.

 

[Prince EWS]

There are a lot of quick bowlers who can swing the ball and bowl with accuracy at their best. The thing is, Butler never even hinted that he could do it consistently enough to be anything approaching international class. Most bowlers can bowl very well. Most bowlers cannot bowl very well consistently. I think you have to at least suggest that you can do something consistently before you're labeled with genuine potential.

See, I disagree. Potential is something that can be judged purely on what a player's best produces. Grabbing hold of that potential and developing it into a consistent, reliable product is how top class international players are made - but of course, said potential isn't always reached - as was the case with Butler.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

See, I disagree. Potential is something that can be judged purely on what a player's best produces. Grabbing hold of that potential and developing it into a consistent, reliable product is how top class international players are made - but of course, said potential isn't always reached - as was the case with Butler.

There's potential and there's genuine potential. As stated above, many many bowlers have potential. And many of them will never bridge the gap to genuine potential to succeed on the world stage. And it's not just about "grabbing hold" of potential, because some players simply are not good enough to play international cricket - many of them, in fact. It's not for lack of effort or coaching, and certainly not for lack of pace.

I don't see how Butler can be suggested to have had great potential when the only thing he could do with any consistency at all was bowl fast.

 

[Richard]

at Liam and Rob here, TBH. It's something that can never be truly resolved. Myself and tec had this-'un 50 or 60 times.

 

[Smudge]

Butler actually reached A level status with Northern Districts last year, and knocked up a couple of centuries too - with the bat, that is.

 

[Natman20]

Butler is not a pace bowler any more so will never make it to the NZ squad again sadly. He has made a few appearences in the shield this season but hasnt really proved himself with the bat. I think he may have got 1 or 2 half centuries though.